The Great War Forum, that was the forum that wouldn't allow a link to this forum

[Great War truck]

Safariswing stated “The Great War Forum, that was the forum that wouldn't allow a link to this forum” and this has set me thinking.

 

I have not offended anyone for a long time so lets see what I can do here. :banme:

 

I beleive that there is an unfathomable gap between the WW1 historian and those who collect and restore military vehicles (even those of the WW1 period). It is as if they are saying “I have a PHD in history and I am far more qualified to talk about WW1 history than you”.

 

When undertaking a visit to the IWM library some many years ago, the librarian was exceptionally surprised to see that I wanted to look at pictures of WW1 trucks and looked at me as if I was insane. They did actually go on to be quite helpful. While undertaking a visit to a second world famous collection (the name of which I shall not mention), the librarian was thoroughly objectionable and obstructive and oversaw the whole visit himself in case some heinous crime was about to be committed. Such unpleasant behaviour does not occur in every instance. The librarian at the Bovington tank museum could not have been more helpful and kind, but that may be because it is a tank museum after all and not a military history museum. The National Motor Museum was similarly helpful. If the museum is not dedicated to vehicles of one sort or another it seem that they will have no interest in our interest and will make that quite clear. Hence my thoughts on the Great War forum.

 

Although I enjoy the likes of Stand to and the Poppy and the Owl there does seem to be a certain elitism in their manner and they have no interest in the military vehicles of the period. A shame really as they are the ones that are missing out on the history of some of the largest and most significant surviving artifacts of the war.

 

Just to finish of my rant, I have met more like minded people on this forum who even if they don’t have a specific interest in WW1 trucks are interested enough to read a post, look at a photo and comment on it rather than just dismiss it as something of no interest, than I have in any other organization (except maybe the MVT :-) ). In fact, I have met more people who are positively interested in WW1 trucks here than anywhere else. To my mind such a broad interest of the members in this forum is something to celebrate. The day that we “ban” links to other forums (unless those that fall under the X rated category of course) is a day which I am sure will never come. HMVF is far too big for that.

 

Tim (too)

 

 

 

[Marmite!!]

It was the same forum that kept deleting my post for our Bunker Bash show even though we were trying to attract WW1 reenactors, it wasn't until we got a local group involved & they made a post on there that the thread stayed

 

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=75307&hl=KELVEDON

 

although after this I posted the event again in another thread inviting others to attend & it was removed within minutes.

 

As well as posting a link to this forum I also tried to post links to the WW1 Vehicle & troops footage on HMVF-TV.. once again removed..

 

Just done a search on there & it seems a link from HMVF has splipped through the net, posted by our own Clive Elliot.. he must have friends in high places :whistle:

 

May be it's because I'm too PW :whistle:

[fv1609]

Tim

 

I am a subscriber to Great War Forum. It is at times quite intense & most people really know their stuff. I feel very cautious about making a post & saying something foolish, I was going to say it doesn't so matter so much here, but I mean that in a complimentary way.

 

When I have ventured on it is only subjects I know a little bit about & can stand my ground a bit. These tend to be about documents/manuals/forms, water supply, animals in warfare, sanitation, stores supply & cataloguing etc

 

But I have come across some extraordinarily kind, knowledgeable & helpful people with whom I have exchanged information.

 

I think I've seen your postings Tim about painting of WW1 vehicles. I think that was a surprise for them. As MT seems to have only limited consideration in many peoples eyes, as if everything that moved around was on a mule or a horse.

 

I think it is the reverse of WW2 thinking! The world seems obsessed a thirst for knowledge about German tanks & mechanisation, yet don't realise that most equipment moved by the German Army was moved not by MT but horses, 1.1 million of them!

 

Getting back to the point the intensity of knowledge & specialisation of GWF maybe blinds them to the role of MT in WW1 & maybe that there is such a tiny proportion of WW1 in MV circles that HMVF is too broad a forum to link up to.

 

I have found most museums good if you are precise & show you know what you are talking about. What gets up my nose is the attitudes in some bookshops. When you ask where the military section is. All I want be told is where the military books are. But often you get asked what period of history are you looking for? I know I don't look the smartest of individuals, but I think if I said I was writing a paper on Napoleonic wars then I would be very readily welcomed.

 

My usual answer is that I have a broad range of interests. As long as it is British I am interested in anything from field latrines to guided weapons. Then I am grudgingly told where the military shelves are, but with an attitude that indicates I can't be a serious collector. Makes me hoping mad because I have a large number of military books on a wide range of topics.

[abn deuce]

I would hope in this day and age that one would keep an open mind in all things historical

since each day that goes by more things are being lost ,books, vehicles , documents , veterans and their memories , film and photograph's . By keeping an open mind and a broad range of interest's we each can help these thing from getting lost or destroyed . While I have a special interest in a narrower area , I Know others who's specialities are in other area's.

What I trying to say is by sharing knowledge and discovers we all benefit .

If I were to find a photo album of say WWI or the American Civil war images and simply say "I m a only a WW2 Historian " so why take note of this object and let that album be thrown away it would be a tragedy , Better to say I know someone who is very interested in things like this who's knowledge is in this area I m saving what what may be a very rare item.

Don't puts on blinders and ignor the rest , Share and learn everyday .

[Tony B]

My turn for a rant: Anyone who closes their mind to any section of history is a complete :argh: :argh: :n00b: Most conflicts derive from something that happened previously, if you don't understand the background you have a large gap in your supposed expertise.

[Great War truck]

I have just gone into the Great War Forum and was pleasantly suprised. I do still stand by what i said about elitism with certain WW1 military historians though.

 

While looking through the GWF i came across a couple of familiar names (nice to see cross polination between forums chaps), pictures of two of our trucks and Steve and I, with some very interesting and well founded comments. When i am not supposed to be working i will go back in and have a closer look, but i take on board what you have said and will see if i can add positively to the general knowedge of the subject on the GWF.

 

Interesting to look at the GWF rules. All sorts of posts will be deleted it seems if they do not fall within the guidelines, including anything about executions - they certainly have a lesser tolerance of anything even slightly political.

 

Tim (too)

[Jessie The Jeep]

OK, I'm coming out of the closet!!!!! I too have an interest in WW1 !!

 

One of my other hobbies, aside to MV's and R/C planes, is model railroading. Back around 1980, dad and myself built a model of a narrow gauge line 'Somewhere in France'. The light weight lines were easy and quick to lay, and were used extensively to supply the front lines and to bring wounded back.

 

Our layout build to 1/72 scale, started at a bombed out town, now well behind the front lines. Next section featured an airfield with a flight of SE5a fighters taking off. The last section featured the railhead and trenches.

 

I've just recently got this old layout back from my dad to do an extensive rebuild which includes much scratch built rolling stock and locos. Here's one of them, a petrol-electric Decauville-Crochat tractor. Petrol-electrics were used up to the front line as the smoke and steam from a steam loco would give away its position and that of the railhead. It is just in primer and still needs its final colour coat. The two US boxcars attached were stripped for their chassis to become French 'Well Wagons'.

 

http://www.all-model-railroading.co.uk/forum/imagehosting/15204745694dca6b9.jpg[/img]

 

Here's the trenches as it was, though a bit tatty after 20 plus years in storage. It will look a great deal different once fully rebuilt.

http://www.all-model-railroading.co.uk/forum/imagehosting/1520473b6690a9e84.jpg[/img]

 

Steve

[Great War truck]

Thats quite good. With the thickness of the base you could have tunnel wrfare going on underneath. I started collecting 6mm engines and rolling stock as that is the same as the 2 foot narrow gauge track used during the war (in 1/72), but as it started getting expensive and time was short i never got anywhere with it. Maybe when the kids leave home i will take it up again.

 

So anyway, i have joind the GW forum. Nice bunch of people but as was said previously, they are a very serious bunch. I noticed in a couple of posts that the poster had the word "banned" after their name. Maybe we should take that up here Jack. :banme:

 

Tim (too)

[Rlangham]

Wow, great layout Steve - i'm getting an 009 Simplex petrol tractor in the post soon so thinking of doing a WWI layout, gives me something useful to do with my model vehicles! Have to agree, without going into too much detail, I find those on the GWF a bit of the 'we're better than you because i've read more books/got a degree in history' mentality, plus they seem to look down on re-enactors etc despite the fact i'd consider that living as the soldiers did would give you more knowledge in five minutes as to what it was like, than five years of looking at books and photos

[79x100]

 

 

While undertaking a visit to a second world famous collection (the name of which I shall not mention), the librarian was thoroughly objectionable and obstructive and oversaw the whole visit himself in case some heinous crime was about to be committed.

 

 

 

Tim, you didn't visit that museum in South Ken with a reserve collection at Wroughton, did you ?

 

I'd give a thumbs up to the IWM archive as well. I think these days they're really pleased to have anyone with a serious interest in. The head-count probably helps with next year's funding.

[Great War truck]

Tim, you didn't visit that museum in South Ken with a reserve collection at Wroughton, did you ?

 

 

Good guess, but actually that was not the collection i was referring to. But we did visit them and they were incredibly unhelpful. While looking at the FWD at Wroughton we were verbally chastised by a young lady who shouted at the top of her voice "DO NOT TOUCH THE OBJECT!" when we got too close to it. I presume that she was talking about the FWD.

 

Some of these museums need a good shake up, starting off by replacing all their staff with people who are interested in what they do.

 

Tim (too)

[fv1609]

Some of these museums need a good shake up, starting off by replacing all their staff with people who are interested in what they do. Tim (too)

 

No, no no, these days that counts for nothing :nono: :nono:

 

It's qualifications first, any interest, knowledge, or experience in the subject is immaterial, it seems.

[Enigma]

For me its easy;

I am interested in WW1 and love the trucks!

 

Seen a 1918 military Dodge Pick Up on E-bay years ago and it looked great.

Unfortunately I'm not in the financial position to buy and transport it or I would have bought it.

It would go great with my original Doughboy uniforms I some times wear (did that at Beltring).

 

So GWT, keep em coming and hopefully I'll get lucky enough to sit in a running WW1 truck one day?

[Snapper]

Interesting points. I am a fulltime picture librarian - it was once a brilliant job, but these days we have been consumed by digitisation and there is no time for the old formats. I am very bored. By chance a job came up in the picture archive of a leading museum in the capital and it was made for me. They loved me - but they wanted to pay me £14,000 a year to do the job. I don't mind admitting I could not afford to half my salary and pay over £2000 in fares alone to do this job. This might account for why many of the staff are uninterested. I would guess a lot of museum "professionals" move through the system like many people do in establishment organisations like education etc (I know this from personal experience). There will be few genuinely dedicated people steeped in the subject. I managed a project a few years ago to digitise huge chunks of the print archive of Murdoch's papers (I was part of a team, not kingpin). We had a team of staff under us who were mostly recent graduates who just wanted media jobs. They had good degrees and they were all of the "right sort" according to the men in ties. But they knew nothing and so many of them were blinded with prejudices. We'd get "I don't believe in the Monarchy". so they would do terrible work on anything to do with Kings and Queens - we'd be told, why should I know who the Queen's mother is?. Ditto "I didn't do geography" - translated as "I don't know anything about anywhere - but I've been to Goa and you haven't". "I hate Thatcher" was a blind for knowing nothing about British politics of the 20th century. I don't like sport - means exacly that - they didn'y know Bobby Charlton from Bobby Davro. Don't even start me on our military history. I went grey (not my hair, either). Of course all this highlights a much wider and more deeply troubling malaise. My Dad was a card carrying communist who hated the establishment and passed it on to me in meny respects and there are lots of people and subjects that bore the derrier off me, but I am from an age where professionalism means learning STUFF.

It's about pride. This is, perhaps, why some museums are so poor with service. The people are a brand of civil (or sometimes VERY uncivil) servant. They get paid pooey wages and don't have great working lives. Replacing them with financially secure, very kean people is wonderful - and perhaps this is what the museum hoped I'd do, but there is a real world.

 

I haven't even touched on the GWF. I'm a member - hardly posted - and a member of the WFA, but my pleasure is intensely personal and shared with a small gang of mates - I read a lot of WW1 stuff and live for battlefield touring more than MVs, but I don't really want to share it with a busload of others. Their knowledge doesn't intimidate me one bit., I am happy at my level. Happy - it's the clue. But turning people away for elitist reasons, misguided or just plain silly. You decide. I think that WW1 is wrapped up a great deal more in the people rather than the aparatus. Ironic - but, there you go....

 

Stick with our broad church. Amen.

[LeeEnfield]

No, no no, these days that counts for nothing :nono: :nono:

 

It's qualifications first, any interest, knowledge, or experience in the subject is immaterial, it seems.

 

 

 

 

 

VERY,VERY true,..................unfortunatly........ :angry: