Bid for your Russian manufactured TANK on Ebay , it seems not burried (this time) just collection in Ukrainee

[ruxy]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1574872/Russian-tanks-eBay-Ukraine-selling-tanks-military-equipment

[andym]

With or without embedded NLAW?  😉

Andy

[ruxy]

2 hours ago, andym said:

With or without embedded NLAW?  😉

Andy

Does a  T72  have any protection from  NLAW    ?

[NZM305]

12 hours ago, ruxy said:

Does a  T72  have any protection from  NLAW    ?

So far........ apparently not.

[terryb]

depends which model of t72 they are fielding. from what we have seen so far, it would appear that some old spec 'sacrificial' armour has been pushed to the front to test the waters. NLAW is single shaped charge with either top or side attack mode. Frontline t72 has extensive explosive reactive armour covereage (even on turret roof) and active AT missile protection. As with any tank though-just shoot it up the back end and knock it out

[attleej]

So far as  I can see, we have been very clever by not only giving the Ukrainians the NLAW and telling them how to use it but also we have had the time to train them in the underlying tactics

[earlymb]

I don't doubt the Russians have a million gazillion tanks, but exactly how many of those are 21st century-spec? They won't risk all of those for an invasion I think?

[johnwardle]

Has anyone else noticed that quite a lot of the Russian vehicles used in the invasion of Ukraine are rather long in tooth? For example Uaz 452 vans, Ural 375s and Zil 131s. Are these vehicles in regular service with the Russian army, or ere they dragged out of storage from Soviet times?

[terryb]

exactly what I am seeing. Makes you wonder what the game plan is. We all know if they wanted to, Russian forces could have used their better toys to be done and dusted by now?

[ruxy]

If  power station fissile material is spread  (by fault of muppets to the pyramid top) over Scandinavia, west & east Europe , then NATO may see that as the equiv. of the Russians launching tactical weapons.

[andym]

5 hours ago, terryb said:

exactly what I am seeing. Makes you wonder what the game plan is. We all know if they wanted to, Russian forces could have used their better toys to be done and dusted by now?

Underestimating the opposition, possibly?

Andy

[attleej]

The advice that I am getting is that eventually the Russians will win stage one but they simply do not have the troops to maintain control across the whole country after that.  That needs a certain density of troops which, mathematically,  they cannot achieve.

Nevertheless, I still have hope that the Ukrainian armed forces can do the 'impossible'.

On the equipment, it maybe that they have concentrated on shiny tanks and aircraft at the expense of boring CSS (Combat Service Support, AKA Logistics.  This is a mistake frequently made by armed forces around the world, particularly when corrupt politicians get involved in procurement decisions.

I cannot believe that we are seeing state on state conflict, in Europe, in the 21st Century.  It is beyond miserable.

John

[ruxy]

Putin seems to have a belief in Sir Halford Mackinder's  "Heartland Theory"   +  the BIG 2.1/2 at Yalta.      Karl Haushofter who part educated Hitler , had a fall out with him at Rudolf Hess's son's birth party - saying Hitler did not understand , Hitler said nothing and quietly left the party and got on with Op. Barbarossa.

[johann morris]

It's all very sad and quite what the west can do I really don't know but lets just hope that the Chinese don't take advantage of the situation and try something as well. 

Jon

[earlymb]

It might not be impossible the Chinese are paying close attention and are unpleasantly surprised that the EU and NATO actually put aside a lot of their internal differences and formed an united front against Russia. I'm pretty sure this has been an unpleasant surprise for Putin too and something he didn't think was possible.

[ruxy]

[terryb]

so that's who's putting them on ebay......

can't wait for the Hermes guy to drop mine off.

[radiomike7]

This current fiasco could have been avoided, apparently a few weeks ago a handpicked unit from the ARW were dropped into a forest just outside Moscow with instructions to take out Putin. Unfortunately they misunderstood the instructions and took him 10 pin bowling on the first night and were seen together in a posh Moscow restaurant last week.

[terryb]

Only in Ukraine.... on the BBC news showing civilians driving around with SAAB defence NLAWs in their boot (about $33000 each!)

[John F]

On 3/7/2022 at 5:35 PM, radiomike7 said:

This current fiasco could have been avoided, apparently a few weeks ago a handpicked unit from the ARW were dropped into a forest just outside Moscow with instructions to take out Putin. Unfortunately they misunderstood the instructions and took him 10 pin bowling on the first night and were seen together in a posh Moscow restaurant last week.

See also "Mr Jolly Lives Next Door" by the Comic Strip (Rik Mayall, Adrian Edmondson et al) from back in the 80s... lol

Edited March 11, 2022 by John F

[andym]

This one may need a bit more work, but I'm sure that Rick would have it good as new inside a month.

 

[attleej]

I can't fail to think of all those fine young men on both sides losing their lives in such an unnecessary war.  It really pains me.

On a technical note, it is interesting to see so many T72s with their turret having been blown off by the ammunition initiating.  It is also hard to understand why the ERA blocks appear to be so insensitive to the heat.

John 

[andym]

1 hour ago, attleej said:

I can't fail to think of all those fine young men on both sides losing their lives in such an unnecessary war.  It really pains me.

On a technical note, it is interesting to see so many T72s with their turret having been blown off by the ammunition initiating.  It is also hard to understand why the ERA blocks appear to be so insensitive to the heat.

John 

Absolutely agreed, John.

On the ERA front, that has intrigued me too.  I'm wondering if they are actually ERA or just something put there for show. That in turn makes me wonder about things like the Armata which is conspicuous by its absence.  How many of those are just mockups for parades?

Andy

[johnwardle]

Ref the ERA blocks, I saw a video on YouTube about the ERA on Russian tanks in Ukraine, apparently most of the side ERA bags are filled with all sorts of rubbish to make them look like they are filled with ERA, but the egg cartons and other rubbish doesn't work like ERA for some reason.

[andym]

A number of the photos I've seen suggest that the "ERA" is just slabs of steel plate.  The real scandal here is what the tank crews were told - sent into battle with completely ineffective armour (which should have defeated NLAW) while some official is lurking in his dacha built with the proceeds?

Andy