A SAD ENDING? WW1 Memorial Stone

[N.O.S.]

Heard back from Thetford Grammar School history man - they feel we have done as much as they would normally achieve, and not really that interested in using our man as a project. It seems they do "old boys" only. Oh well. Cannon fodder springs to mind.

 

Will await further news from the Regimental museum.

 

I am advised that copies of Trench Maps from WFA chap will take 10 days or so due to some difficulties with printing large files - they are write protected so cannot be copied. When these come I will consider getting hold of a CD if we need it (suppose it could go in the clubhouse library?), alternatively I could buy just the maps we need once you guys have studied them :dunno:

 

Till then :sleep: :sleep:

[N.O.S.]

Still no WFA trenchmaps :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

 

Wish I'd done it myself now..........

 

Still no emailed file of french map, email address sent twice :dunno: :dunno: :dunno: :dunno: :dunno: :dunno: :dunno:

[Rick W]

Calm down mate!! ;-) While we were rolling along at a fair pace of knots, and to be honest, done more research in a couple of weeks than people could hope to do in months, its the nitty-gritty stuff which will take the time. Imagine an archaeologist taking dyas if not weeks, years scraping away at the soil, a few centimetres at a time so as not to miss anything, looking for the slightest variation in the colour of the soil. Peeling away the layers of an onion.....Now go and put your whale song CD on and have a large one! ;-)

[N.O.S.]

You're right.

 

Remember that Time Team dig of the Bomber on Suffolk marsh, where all the aero enthusiasts were getting very tetchy while Phil and his mates tried to dig out a B17 from 15 feet with only brickie's trowels and the clock was ticking down? Evenually the big machines moved in and they got some results in the nick of time :-D

 

I'll go and listen to my Talking Books edition of the WLF Workshop Manual, narrated by Bill Bailley :banana:

And I still haven't got my overalls...

[David Ives]

yep just wait as everything will come out in time :-)

but please dont give up you have done so much to remind everyone that one person unknown to all but a brother in arms will still live on

i know it would of been nice to sort out exactly where he died but the only way to do that was to find out where the aid station was near the cemetary that he is buried in :computerterror:

just think if you had not rescued the stone it probably would of been broken up but through your efforts it will stand somewhere in tribute to a fallen comrade

keep your spirits up

[Tony B]

Hey mate, it's hurry up and wait time! I know its frustrating. Go through the mountain you have, I used powerpoint for my level 3 presentation. Very therapeutic great programme to use and you have a professional thing to show people. I did 1500 words on Haig and Rawlings tactics and command on the Battle of the Somme, took me 6 months of research and writing, 7 diffrent versions to get it absolutely right. :coffee2: :sweat:

[N.O.S.]

OK, received trench maps from the local WFA trench map man.

 

They are taken from the CD available from http://www.great-war-trench-maps.com

 

The quality is not great as they have been printed out on an average printer to A4 size.

 

I'll list what I've been given tomorrow, but this is an enlargement of the Beugny area from 57CNW4 dated 04.07.18.

 

I've positioned the cemetry accurately using googleearth, note the network of narrow gauge railway lines.

 

I'm not really sure what I'm looking at here, also cannot correlate any of the map co-ordinates given in the war diary for 02 Sep 1918 :dunno: :yawn2:

 

 

[N.O.S.]

These are the maps as given to me on A4:

 

1. Beugny 57CNW4 07.02.17

2. Beugny 57CNW4 04.07.18

3. Hermies 57CNE3 20.09.17 (immediately to East of Beugny)

4. Richebourg 36SW3 12.06.16

5. Richebourg 36SW3 02.07.18

6. Sainghin 36SW4 02.07.18 (immediately to East of Richebourg)

 

Note that these originals are to 1/10,000 scale.

German trenches change colour on some maps.

[Rick W]

I'll take a close look this afternoon. The blue wiggly lines are obviously the trenches.

[Tony B]

This is the modern map of the area.

[N.O.S.]

One thing is for certain, you need to have either a full size copy of the original map, or a CD quality file to enlarge on screen, in order to get much from these trench maps.

 

These were taken from the CD of 175 maps available from http://www.great-war-trench-maps.com Do you think there will be any more of these areas in the archives?

 

Not such good plans as the sample posted by RickW earlier, that was a "S" for secret one which showed enemy trenches, other maps did not often show German trenches (until 1918 when most maps did).

 

I wonder if it is worth enquiring with IWM archives and paying a visit down there in the new year - I confess to having little experience in interpreting these things. Anyone more experienced in these maps (and also the campaign) interested in a joint visit? We might be able to come away with some better maps :dunno:

[N.O.S.]

This is the modern map of the area.

 

 

Interesting that some of the WD light railway earthworks (running EW just to south of cemetery) have survived.....

[Tony B]

Yes just been looking on Google Earth. Not a lot of the railway seem to have survived. The road layout hasn't changed so that does give some refernce points. Oh to go feild walking!. The area is heavily cultivated so proably not much left on the surface to locate the trenches.

I wonder if there is a local history group?

[Tony B]

MAIRIE

RUE CAMBRAI

62124 BEUGNY

Tél. +33 (3) 21 55 52 94

John Wheatley is the guy, he has the Degree in french studies. Shall we invade his pub and get him to write a letter? :-D

[Snapper]

Don't start me on field walking Tony. I've got a day over there on the 28th - but we're up round Bethune and on towards Armentieres visiting specific graves for a couple of projects. As soon as I get back, I need to go straight away. I have no interest in souvenir hunting per se, but am always pleased to find bits laying about. Some people are just naturally lucky and of course there are those who are just down right dispicable, raiding

archeaeology sites and robbing the dead for profit.

 

Just so you blokes know, metal detecting is ILLEGAL in France and possession without a licence will lead to your arrest and a good kicking in some areas on the Somme. Fair dos.

 

This is just an aside,,,

 

I know the real interest is in 'our' man. God bless him. I've been to Beugny - it's a typical little hamlet of happy nothingness. There are many cemeteries and memorials in the area, particularly up around the Queant sector where vicious fighting took place in the autumn of 1918. I've never done any field walking round there, but the country is little different from the Somme....it is beautiful like all agrarian France is.

[N.O.S.]

Have any of you trench map experts had a chance to look at what we've got here?

 

Is this what you expected?

 

Do you think it is worth me trying to search for better maps at IWM archives?

[Tony B]

A big question is , are there any better? the maps changed rapidly, and a working map is a disposable tool. The next thing may be to consolidate what there is then take it all to the National Army Museum reading room at Chelsea. The archivists there are very helpful.

[David Ives]

as time has run by since the last update

what has happened since december

are we any closer to finding where he was killed and what is the final decision on the stone please

[N.O.S.]

Thanks for the nudge, David!

 

I am still awaitig a response from the Anglian Regiment Museum at Norwich concerning the proposal of the Sec. of Anglian Regt. Association to base it there and use for eductional visits to local schools (this being my own first choice), but no word as yet. I will chase them this week.

 

Meantime I have yet to get down to London to search for other trench maps. I was a little disappointed with those which the local WFA trench expert kindly provided (these came from the CD of maps made available for purchase), hence the idea to try the archives at IWM. I will phone and speak to them first - Rick, I believe you spoke to someone about maps - do you have a contact?.

 

I have yet to do this. Does anyone with experience of trench maps care to join me for a visit? - would need to be a weekday, and I have a feeling it will be a long day.......

 

I need to get this resolved in good time before November, and will advise on progress asap.

 

Tony

 

p.s. progress on this has been equally as impressive as progress on my vehicle restoratons during the same period -diddley squat

[Rick W]

Was thinking about this the other day, be nice to see it concluded.As far as internet searching goes I have gone as far as I can I think.I think it will need some footwork down to the National Archives or Regimental Museum to get the War Diaries/Trench Maps. I'd love to go down with you Tony, but as one of my less-than-reliable employees is doing a 5 week sickydue to a pulled muscle (:argh:), days off are going to be non-existent for the next few weeks.

[David Ives]

if during the week then i might be able to meet up with you at the iwm

not sure how much use i would be but can always make coffee

[N.O.S.]

It seems the Norfolk Regiment Museum in Norwich will take the stone, but cannot guarantee to display it. I have been advised that it would almost certainly be put into storage (due to lack of display space, not interest) so that is where it would probably stay :-(

 

Once in storage, I'm not convinced it would get much (if any) use as part of school - based research, so I do not like this idea. I'd rather give it a home myself (must admit I've become quite attached to it!) and establish some contacts with schools in order to make it accessible.

 

I did wonder whether to contact the British Legion Thetford branch and see if they have any interest in displaying it at their nice old building on the Market Square . At least it would keep the stone local and in an appropriate environment. Any views on this please?

 

And if I get enough time to pull some more detail together and consolidate the info you have all contributed, we could pursue the possibility of a write-up in Britain At War magazine in time for November?

 

The Sec. of Anglian and Norfolk Regt Association is still on the case and very enthusiastic, and has passed my contact info to someone locally with a lot of trench map experience - awaiting a call, and hope to have more info for you soon.

Edited June 15, 2008 by N.O.S.

[Tony B]

This November will be the nintyeth anniversary of the Armistice. Be nice to have it in a good loving home. I'd try everything, Britian at War, the ITV, BBC.

[Rlangham]

I'd be happy to do a write up for Britain at War magazine, and donate the payment to any costs of displaying the stone or just to the local RBL branch, but they've gone very quiet for some reason! If I do hear anything though, i'll mention it to them

[Jack]

Once in storage, I'm not convinced it would get much (if any) use as part of school - based research, so I do not like this idea. I'd rather give it a home myself (must admit I've become quite attached to it!) and establish some contacts with schools in order to make it accessible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am in agreement with your thought here Tony. It needs to be kept safe until a decision has been made. Don't think there any need to rush this, it is to special for that.

 

 

And if I get enough time to pull some more detail together and consolidate the info you have all contributed, we could pursue the possibility of a write-up in Britain At War magazine in time for November?

 

 

 

Yes please and if you can get something in BAW or CMV, MMI then maybe that publicity may bring someone forward and give it the home you wanted. I am more than happy to give Martin at Britain at War a ring on your behalf...