Rick W Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 Programme called the above on Monday in the evening. The local rag which has listed this is a bit cutting about it. A WW2 recreation weekend in Kent. Anyone any thoughts on it, or knows anything about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 Yes there's a lot of discussion about it on the WW2 Forum, the reenactors aren't very happy... http://wwiireenacting.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32890 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 This is from the bbc website Weekend Nazis Mon 27 Aug, 8:30 pm - 9:00 pm 30mins Re-enacting battles from World War II is a popular summer pastime in the UK. But although we won the war, it's the Germans that most people want to portray and the SS who are the most popular of all. All good clean fun for most of those involved but there's a dark side too. John Sweeney tours the biggest event of its type in Kent and discovers David Irving, jailed for denying the holocaust, signing books, a trader selling a relic from Belsen and some Nazi enthusiasts expressing extreme racist views. Britain went to war to defend free speech but should it now be the home of activities which are banned by law in Germany and in future perhaps, across the EU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
79x100 Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 Wasn't Beltring originally an MV event ? This shows what the outside world thinks of it. :-( To be honest, I'm not sure about why someone would want to dress in a uniform that they're not proud to wear but perhaps that just highlights a lack of imagination on my part ? :? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 Christ knows what Rex was thinking letting David Irving have a book signing there :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
79x100 Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 Christ knows what Rex was thinking letting David Irving have a book signing there :dunno: Did the organisers know ? It must be very difficult to control everything on every stand. Which stand was he on ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 Did the organisers know ? Well he was there for a few days.... :roll: shouldn't of been there more than a few minutes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 Christ knows what Rex was thinking letting David Irving have a book signing there :dunno: My god - that is outrageous, I really wouldn't wanto be associated with that what so ever - what the hell is this movement thinking of. To be selling something from Belsen must be one of the most obscene things I have heard of since I have been in this movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 I would imagine the papers the next day will have a field day :-o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 Sorry to go on but there is always some bloody idiot willing to profit from human pain and misery like this. No wonder why we have a social problem in this country. If I was there and of known that some freak was selling something from Belsen I would I dragged him off the bloody site myself. This has upset me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 Well he was there for a few days.... :roll: shouldn't of been there more than a few minutes I damn well hope so. People will soon be moaning that their hobby is under attack - tough luck, should of seen a bit further than making a couple of quid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick W Posted August 24, 2007 Author Share Posted August 24, 2007 Ive yet to see the prog to be screened, but I cant see it as being very positive. I agree with all sentiments about that bloke, he must live on a different planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 Don't know if it was the same guy, but some years back I watched a tv documentary showing a whacko trying to prove, by chemical analysis of residue from a concentration camp gas chamber lining, that it never happened. At the time I just thought it was sad, thinking about it now I cannot believe a major tv channel would ever screen anything so offensive to so many. We are our own worst enemy........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougiebarder Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 I saw that-I presume they meant a baggage trolley with belsen and SS markings. I commented at the time, I'd have thought that even if somebody kept the trolley after the war, they would have got rid of the markings. It looked in very good condition. I wouldn't put it past somebody selling something like that in the first to fake it. :dunno: I'm not a big fan of anybody wearing a uniform they're not entitles too, but I really have to wonder about the mentality of any German reenacts (especially the non German ones). As for SS ones, I can only presume they do it for political reasons! (I'd still rather see a marquee with mannequins wearing all the uniforms-I could see them all much better, and there wouldn't be hundreds of poseurs wearing airborne/special forces uniforms and very few of the more common(during the war) ones. Cat amongst the pigeons-please discuss. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick W Posted August 24, 2007 Author Share Posted August 24, 2007 The wearing of uniforms is a hotly debated issue, especially where it concerns the use of SS. It is still a part of our history that we should not forget Notwithstanding, we should not let a holocaust denier enter our events. I await Monday evening with interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisg Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 Sorry to go on but there is always some bloody idiot willing to profit from human pain and misery like this. No wonder why we have a social problem in this country. If I was there and of known that some freak was selling something from Belsen I would I dragged him off the bloody site myself. This has upset me. visited beslen this year very very moving then to read this thread words fail me very upset as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 I'm not a big fan of anybody wearing a uniform they're not entitles too, ..... Cat amongst the pigeons-please discuss. ;-) Discussed this one a few times, here's a couple... http://www.hmvf.co.uk/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=38&topic=2617.msg20375#msg20375 http://www.hmvf.co.uk/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=38&topic=97.msg255#msg255 Think this hobby needs the reenactors... all era's & all countries... the public want a bit more than a Static show nowadays... As for SS ones, I can only presume they do it for political reasons! Do you know any SS reenactors :dunno: All of history should be kept alive... I presume you would like to see SS banned & if so in banning SS reenactors wouldn't that be denying history like David Irving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 I think this is where it becomes difficult as I do not have a problem with any uniform as to a certain degree I own a vehicle that I didn't earn the right to drive - it is much a part of the killing machine as a uniform. I do not have a problem with rank either but it has to be kept within context i.e - within in the show ring because that is what it is, a show. The SS argument is something that I am perplexed with. Is it bad taste? Yes without a doubt but what in war is of good taste. I understand the context of the SS but I question the morality of people wearing the uniform and also the relevance of it - or as Lee has stated, are we being selective with what part of history we like to see? I feel slightly uncomfortable driving down Weymouth high street on Veterans weekend being saluted by veteran's - I have still to get my head around that oxymoron. I also get worried when I receive emails from reenactors when they sign it off as SGT Smith or Captain Smith - that unnerves me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 In Europe it is an offence to sell militaria marked with the swastika, hence the dealears head to Beltring. There is also a large black market in northern France and Belgium for memorabilia. This is often taken from sites where bodies are found in fields. As the metal regalia is probably the only bits to survive any chance of identification of the man will come from these. By grave robbing , they and those that will buy 'no questions asked' deny a man his name. You have killed him twice! There were some WW1 helmets being sold recently, the boast 'Still got flesh in them'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougiebarder Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 Do you know any SS reenacts :dunno: All of history should be kept alive... I presume you would like to see SS banned & if so in banning SS reenactors wouldn't that be denying history like David Irving The SS are banned-they'll never reform! :whistle: No I don't know any SS reenactors, but I don't think that I'd want to. If some idiot is stopped from running around beltring etc in an SS uniform it isn't denying history-the SS , and the things they did are fact, I just don't like the idea of the idiots glorifying them! I get my history from more reliable sources than a bunch of SS nuts running around a field-there are plenty of reliable book's I can read that tell me what a lot of the SS were like! Why not reenact the catering corp? If you think reenacting is the only thing that keeps history alive-the cook's are just as improtant as the SS (or Yank airborne, Paras, commandos etc) just not as good for posing around in a fancy uniform. (I'm not suggesting YOU do it-just reenactors generally-but if you do, mine's an egg banjo please :-D ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop larkin Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 While I do not any SS re-enactors personally, I do know several who reenact German fallschirmager, and I can reliably tell you they are not idiots! If you actually went and talked to these people you would find that they know the subjects they portray very well, and could very well teach you some things about there units history that you wouldn't find in all the books. If you want to look at vehicles parked up fine, go to your local Tesco and stand in the car park. If however you would like to learn about history, see living history in action and talk to other people who know about history, be able to touch and see the equipment and compare the differnces between allied and Axis forces equipment then that is where the reenactor comes in to play. From what I've seen in the 10 years I have been reencating people today don't want to walk around static displays and read endless paragraphs, they want to see and touch the equipment and uniforms themselves. Also the battle would be very one sided without any Germans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougiebarder Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 Fallschirmjäger-As far as I can tell, there were only 3 battalions of SS parachutists, compared to 10 ish divisions of Luftwaffe paratroopers (and what a suprise-more reenacts doing airborne). Are you need to say that these people need to be wearing the gear to be able to teach others? (sex education classes at your school must have been intresting to say the least :-o) If people want to dress up and play soliders-well that's up to you, but don't try and claim it's the best or only way to educate people to history! (That version of history seem's to choose to ignore those who aren't exiting enough!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 I have worked with German re-enactors, of both wars and all nationalities. As I come from Jersey, which unlike England was Occupied by the German's from 1940 till May 9th 1945, most of my teachers and the adults who influenced my childhood lived there during the Occupation, always spelt with capital letter. I didn't learn about Nazi atrocities from history books , I learnt from the people who experienced it . My playground was the bunkers. It is still a very sore point on the Island, and in some parts of Europe. However that said, It is only by presenting all sides of a conflict that the truth gets a chance. A lot of Jersey people had a respect for the Wermacht troops as individuals. It was the Organisation Todt that was held in the greatest contempt. To be exact the Gestapo was never present in the Islands, it was the Secret Field police, mind you if you ended up in their hands for say riding 2 abreast on a bicycle, then the difference was academic. British Civilians did end up in the concentration camps, 12 did not return. The important part for anyone wearing uniform at a show is tolerance . Sooner or later someone will get upset or ask an awkward question, think before you reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 Do you know any SS reenacts :dunno: All of history should be kept alive... I presume you would like to see SS banned & if so in banning SS reenactors wouldn't that be denying history like David Irving The SS are banned-they'll never reform! :whistle: Hmmm.. yes you know I was referring to reenactors... :roll: No I don't know any SS reenactors, but I don't think that I'd want to. If some idiot is stopped from running around beltring etc in an SS uniform it isn't denying history-the SS , and the things they did are fact, I just don't like the idea of the idiots glorifying them! I would suggest you get to know a few before you pass comment on them, but hey you think everyone who puts on a uniform is a nutcase anyway, off now to iron my DPM's :nut: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saracenstump Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 so now does it mean that because i drive a saracen and wear kit that was used with it i now hate all the irish and am now going round trying to run them over?or does it mean i'm tring to start the troubles again,NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! because you portray something be it whatever side you are not trying to restore it in the real world its for show! I know reenactors very well from both sides and none of them have ANY intention of bringing back what happened! As for secret filming at a show,in the beer tent of all things,well when i'm a bit drunk i could take over the world,does that call for a documentary,i think not! There are more seriuos things happening in the world than this and if the BBC have nothing better to do than waste money then think they should look closer to home. freedom of speech was one of the issues of the last war,millions died so we could do it remember that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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