A question to all Carrier owners

[David Herbert]

A note on the track, there wouldn't be a need really for the high grade steel to manufacture them.

A good steel, yes for safety, but a carrier is not going to get THAT much use in UK, even less on roads. Maybe a couple of arena circuits at shows and a play in the fields, that's it!

 

You might want to consider that a carrier is capable of 30 mph which might not sound much compared to a car but is quite enough on steel faced tracks on a surfaced road. They are legal on the roads in the uk and there is a huge pressure to keep up with the traffic. If a track breaks at speed (which they did when new) you have no directional control and negligable braking power. At this point you might wish that they were made of the best steel available. As you suggest, wear is not so critical but it is critical that they do not crack or fatigue.

 

David

[eddy8men]

loosing a track on the road is about as bad as it could get, not many crumple zones when you mount the pavement !

[dgrev]

I highly doubt carrier track was ever made from manganese steel. The use of that material was an engineering revolution and started with the Valentine. It took the Matilda era track life of 500 miles out to 1500 to 2000 miles.

The giveaway is the colour. When it rusts, manganese steel has an odd dark blue to black tinge to the rust, it is quite distinct, once you have seen it, you can recognise manganese steel from then on.

 

As to the practicality of doing more track, I think it comes down to an agreement with an engineering company who has a CNC machine. Once they have a suitable fixture, the raw links can be dropped in and automatically bored quite quickly. The boring part being the high cost item if done manually.

 

I don't know about British or Canadian track, but LP2 Aussie track used a lead plug in one end of the link as a retainer for the track pin. This required a groove inside the pin hole which the lead (being very malleable) flowed into when hammered home and effected a locking function. The pins were retained at the other end by a reduction in the hole diameter. The pins themselves were just a plain piece of steel bar. Probably a suitable stock can be bought off the shelf these days cut to length.

 

There is a bloke in Western Australia who has some of the alloy molds (4 in total needed to give all the segments needed to produce 2 links per impression) for the Aussie track. He knows who has the 2 molds he doesn't possess. So for Aussie track, casting would not be an issue. I have sighted and held the molds, so know this isn't another jeep-in-a-crate legend.

 

Regards

Doug

Edited October 17, 2016 by dgrev

[dgrev]

Being that I am revealing all the secrets of carrier track, I would like something in return from the carrier community - shameless off topic question below, please pay particular attention to the Normandy versus W&P decision. Ok to email me direct if you don't want this thread to go off course.

To drop a bait, I will upload a photos of the mold in the previous post IF people will respond to this question!

dgrev@iinet.net.au

 

===

 

Myself and family are THINKING about visiting the UK/Europe in the June/July/early August period in 2017, roughly 5 weeks duration.

 

It has been over 15 years since we were last on that side of the world and doubtless much has changed in the MV world besides Brexit and the value of the UK Pound!

Back then, Beltring was the ultimate experience and was hog heaven for an MV collector.

 

With the W&P move to Folkestone and the new management, from what I have been reading online, it is a very different event now.

 

Mainly I am an armour person, it was that part of the hobby and the parts stalls that captivated me: I have read that the modern event is sorely lacking in both those areas?

 

New Beltring back at the Hop Farm seems too recent and small to be considered?

 

Having said all of the above, I am looking for suggestions as to what events I should be considering if this trip comes off?

 

I am aware of Tankfest, very much a case of - stand behind the

barriers, watch everything thunder around, but no interaction with the vehicles - more like a display than a hands on access event/show.

 

Or would we be better off looking to other events, on the continent such as "Tanks in Town" in Mons (which is way too late for us to attend), are there others that I should consider?

 

I did Normandy 1999 which was excellent, the atmosphere, the collective bon homme of the mix of nationalities attending was memorable. But that was a 5 year "additive" event, ie, 1944 +5 and so on.

2017 will not be a 5 year anniversary, so will that mean a "quiet"

rally style turnout or have things changed and any year is now a big event?

Not being an additive anniversary also should mean no Presidents, Royalty or associated VIPs and thus

no security lock down wholly and soley for their benefit that ruins

it for the other 100,000 people there?

 

So, in summary: schedule our trip to arrive at beginning of June and

"do" Normandy and whatever shows are on in the June early July time

period, which will mean missing out on W&P. Or miss Normandy and "do"

W&P and whatever shows are on late June to late July very early August?

 

What shows are worth pivoting our holiday around?

 

Opinion please?

 

Thanks

Doug

[Richard Farrant]

British and Canadian Carrier track links, according to manuals were either malleable cast iron or cast steel, track pins were hardened steel.

[Whittingham warrior]

Carriers are massively overpriced. One carrier that seems almost constantly for sale at over £50,000 and probably remains so started off at £9,000, as seen in old copies of CMV, it didn't sell then......

[Lauren Child]

You might want to consider that a carrier is capable of 30 mph which might not sound much compared to a car but is quite enough on steel faced tracks on a surfaced road. They are legal on the roads in the uk and there is a huge pressure to keep up with the traffic. If a track breaks at speed (which they did when new) you have no directional control and negligable braking power. At this point you might wish that they were made of the best steel available. As you suggest, wear is not so critical but it is critical that they do not crack or fatigue.

 

David

 

Just to add to this one, the track of a tracked vehicle is the part that comes under the most stresses of the vehicle. For a vehicle going at 30mph, a track link in contact with the road is stationary (0 mph), and accelerates to twice the speed of the vehicle to overtake the road wheels and get back to the front. It accelerates 0 to 60 in half a turn of the drive sprocket (spindle moving at 30mph, plus rotating at 30mph to propel the track forwards of the spindle)

 

This is why track stretches despite being extremely robust and chunky.

 

If you watch video of a tracked vehicle, you can see the bottom of the track standing still as the wheels roll over it, and the top of the track running twice as fast as the vehicle itself.

[Whittingham warrior]

I must admit at the mental hospital HMVF is a popular site for the patients on my ward to look at. I've lost count of the number of times that a patient has asked will any of the people on the HMVF be coming round to see them or stay a couple of months as an in patient? Some wonder if anything does get done

 

Perhaps the question of carrier track is a classic example.

 

The logical way to try and make carrier track is to get a piece and take it to a local foundry and talk to someone that does the job for a living. He would look at it and no doubt say ' You'll need core boxes to produce the sand cores for the undercuts in the track horns.' He will also laugh himself senseless if you mention about using sand cores for the two parallel holes, unless of course you don't want them parallel or a track pin to go down them. Having calmed down he will refer you to a pattern maker for the obvious reason that using the original track link as a pattern will produced a finished component smaller than the original.

 

Carrier track was produced using sand casting because it is cheap and quick, the lost wax system as used for artificial hips gives excellent results but is very expensive. So lets say the track has been cast in SG iron, the casting with no holes would then go to a machine shop and be mounted in a sliding jig. This would be attached to carriage of a capstan lathe with the long series drill in the headstock. The jig would travel forward be machined out return back and the second operation would commence once the track had been moved across for the next hole.

 

And there you are one finished track link.

 

I'll have to get back to the ward some of the patients need enemas...

[eddy8men]

thanks for your input mark. luckily i have all the track i need so it's somebody else's problem to solve :-D

[Ron]

 

Myself and family are THINKING about visiting the UK/Europe in the June/July/early August period in 2017, roughly 5 weeks duration.

 

I did Normandy 1999 which was excellent, the atmosphere, the collective bon homme of the mix of nationalities attending was memorable. But that was a 5 year "additive" event, ie, 1944 +5 and so on.

2017 will not be a 5 year anniversary, so will that mean a "quiet"

rally style turnout or have things changed and any year is now a big event?

Not being an additive anniversary also should mean no Presidents, Royalty or associated VIPs and thus

no security lock down wholly and soley for their benefit that ruins

it for the other 100,000 people there?

 

 

Opinion please?

 

Thanks

Doug

 

I visit Normandy every year now (Camping at Etreham). I live in Poole so easy for the Poole/Cherbourg ferry crossing. I only ever take one of my military bikes now.

 

Although the atmosphere of the 5 year anniversary years is not to be missed, the in between years are much more relaxed and enjoyable to me. The 50th and 70th were manic and I guess so will be the 75th (But I've already booked my pitch).

 

But leaning back to the original topic. Here's my 1944 Canadian MK2* Ron