Ian L Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Is this a Philips MK5 Infantry bike ? or just a civilian bike painted green ? what would be the distinguishing feature's if any ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 To start with, having front and back stirrup brakes. It would be a Mk V*. The Mk V had a coaster rear brake. http://oldbike.wordpress.com/1939-1945-ww2-phillips-mark-v-military-roadster/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welbike Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 If it has 26" wheels, and it looks like it, then it's postwar, wartime bikes all had 28"wheels. Cheers, Lex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian L Posted February 11, 2014 Author Share Posted February 11, 2014 To start with, having front and back stirrup brakes. It would be a Mk V*. The Mk V had a coaster rear brake. http://oldbike.wordpress.com/1939-1945-ww2-phillips-mark-v-military-roadster/ Hi Tony I thought you might come to my rescue but I'm a tad confused with your answer, are you saying a MK5 does have front and rear stirrup brakes or a rear coaster brake ? I always thought that they only a front brake lever but looking at the link you posted it shows 2 levers on the handle bars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian L Posted February 11, 2014 Author Share Posted February 11, 2014 If it has 26" wheels, and it looks like it, then it's postwar, wartime bikes all had 28"wheels. Cheers, Lex Hi Lex are you sure about the wheel size as this link from the BSA Museum shows the MK5 having 26" wheels http://bsamuseum.wordpress.com/1939-1945-ww2-phillips-mark-v-military-roadster/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Ian, the mark V had a coaster brake on the back so only one brake lever. Pedal backwards for rear brake. The Mk V* had the two brake levers. So yours would be a Mk V*. As for wheel size, that can vary. Seems to be what was available at the time. Are the tyres marked ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welbike Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) Ian and Tony, Have done a lot of research on these, and years ago looked into a WW2 parts list, and no 26" wheels were mentioned, and have watched the big sell out of these from the Belgium Army in the 80's and never seen 26" wheels on them, later in the 90's all these glossy green Phillips ones were for sale at Beltring, for very little money, and did buy 2 at the time for spares. So as to the the above link, of the 1939 one, if you look closely, the same deep bronze green is under the matte paint, and for me that is also a postwar indication. But I could well be wrong, and if anyone finds some conclusive proof, I stand to be corrected. Just found on another forum, a post by Johan Willeart (of H-D fame) that only MKVI bicycles had 26" wheels, will ask him about it. Here my 1946 V.A.O.S. that does mention the 26"wheels and tyres; Here my spares chest, clearly postwar, and carries 26"spare tubes; I won't bore you with too many pictures, but here some WW2 b/w ones, all big wheels; As you all probably know, only the rear carriers were dated, and no lists of framenumbers with contract dates exist, but a friend is looking in the N.A. so who knows what might turn up? Cheers, Lex Edited February 11, 2014 by welbike wrong picture inserted, more info added Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welbike Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Found some more b/w pictures, Lex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcspool Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Is this a Philips MK5 Infantry bike ? or just a civilian bike painted green ? what would be the distinguishing feature's if any ? Ian, further to Lex's excellent input, I found out earlier these bikes were also referred to as "Trade Pattern" bicycles and/or contracts referred to "Contractor's standard specification". This means the military bikes were indeed basically civilian bicycles, with some military features like paint, rear cargo carrier and rifle brackets. The basic design was the English "Roadster" type, an old-fashioned style of bicycle popular in the countryside. They usually had 28 x 1-1/2" wheels with Westwood rims, long cranks and long wheelbases, and very shallow frame angles (68 degrees or less). Roadsters used "roller-lever" brakes operated by rods. Roadsters were built for durability above all else, and were intended to be able to cope with dirt roads, cobblestones and unpaved footpaths, with a bare minimum of maintenance. No serious attempt was made to save weight in their design or construction. With those design requirements in mind, one can understand why the military ordered "trade pattern" roadsters - they fitted the bill for a sturdy bike perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHillyard Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 We picked one up last year and been meaning to ask some details. 28in wheels. Mk4B on the rack but can't find much reference. Also RAF stamped? Several other number stampings but don't have clear photos. Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
79x100 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I believe that the stamping on the carrier relates to the carrier manufacturer only. Frank Ashby & Sons of Bournville Stamping Works, Charlotte Road, Stirchley, Birmingham 30. They are listed in the MoS ledgers as supplying Carrier Kits for Mk IV and Mk V Bicycles. A 'Google' shows a number of pre-war patent applications for carrier-type bicycle accessories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcspool Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Mk4B on the rack but can't find much reference. Looking at the pictures on this site http://bsamuseum.wordpress.com/the-military-roadster/ it seems the "carrier, kit, rear" had it's own mark system, separate from the mark of bicycle it was fitted to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welbike Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Hanno, I have those drawings too, but they are for the MK IV Bicycle, and WW1. But you could be right, will look it up in my VOAS tonight. Cheers, Lex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welbike Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Had a quick look, not looked inside it for a long time!! Carrier is mentioned as the MKIV model, with clamping plates MKII And now I see why it stuck in my mind, that wartime bikes all should have 28"wheels, both MK5 and MK5* are listed as having 28" wheels. (period!) The 26"tyres, as seen above in the page from the VAOS, are for the BICYCLES, Ladies, withous accesories Cat. No. 10031, 3 pounds 19 shillings and sixpence each! (I'll have a dozen please!) The MK5 came complete with all accesories, too much to type, will see if I can make a scan, but cost 8 pounds 9 shillings!! If enough interest, I can do a reprint??? Cheers, Lex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcspool Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Lex, I would like to have a scan / copy / reprint please. Other information re. wartime bikes is welcome, too. Thanks, Hanno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welbike Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Hanno, will see what I can do, but is not on my list of priorities!! Cheers, Lex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHillyard Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I would also be interested in scan/re-print if you did happen to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welbike Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Hi Chaps, No time for full scans yet, but while looking for something else came across this misplaced or never filed bicycle parts list from 1957. Scans should speak for themselves, 26"wheel and tyres, that distinctive sprocket and other details, what make a postwar bike postwar. Cheers, Lex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woa2 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 If enough interest, I can do a reprint??? I'd have a copy of a reprint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anzac Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I have a RAF ww2 phillips on 28,1/2 wheels and the colour is black and never been green i questioned an ex RAF serviceman who told me when he joined up during the war as part of your training you spent two months in the bicycle workshop and all RAF bicyles were black Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welbike Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Ah, Anzac, good info!! Cheers, Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian L Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 Cheers, Alex Hi Alex I'm resurrecting this thread as I now have myself a BSA mk5 (well on Sunday I will) what can you tell me about this bike such as what's missing ? And where might I get some rifle clips from ? original or repo ? Regards Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 Ian. Lex is unable to post on the forum for some reason. I've asked admin to advice. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian L Posted February 4, 2017 Author Share Posted February 4, 2017 Ian. Lex is unable to post on the forum for some reason. I've asked admin to advice. Ron Hi Ron could PM or email me his email address please mate, cheers Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian L Posted February 4, 2017 Author Share Posted February 4, 2017 Went round to see a mate today at his scrap yard to 'chew the fat' and as I went into the porch to knock the front door laying on the floor was this cycle rack. Unbelievable that one turned up within 24 hours of finding the bike. Now all I need are the gun clips like the ones in these 'library' photos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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