justinb Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I had a very nice chap from france visit today and he's very interested in buying my 432 ,i've left all the transport twoddle to him ,but do we need an export license? its very old technology and i couldn't see anything of relevance on the proper list ,he's pretty sure he's exempt from demilitarisation as he's registered , has anyone got experience of such things . justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Child Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I had a very nice chap from france visit today and he's very interested in buying my 432 ,i've left all the transport twoddle to him ,but do we need an export license? its very old technology and i couldn't see anything of relevance on the proper list ,he's pretty sure he's exempt from demilitarisation as he's registered ,has anyone got experience of such things . justin I'd be very surprised if you didn't need an export license. It's an armoured vehicle specifically built for military use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinb Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 definatley don't want to get my collar felt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Child Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 If you're not sure, best ask the authorities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 In a heartbeat, yes, you need one. Its all done online these days, it is like waiting for a shooting star, sometimes the paperwork arrives quickly others take for ages. The system seems impenentrable and lacking in human contact possibilities, just sit and wait. Kind of like "Waiting for Godot" R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 https://www.spire.bis.gov.uk/eng/fox/espire/LOGIN/login Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 He will probably need something his end as well to import it. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinb Posted January 25, 2014 Author Share Posted January 25, 2014 thanks for all the help ,much appreciated justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Hi Justin, I see you are new to the forum, so may not have seen this link from around 8 years ago; http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/archive/index.php/t-975.html I think the French government backed down on banning ownership of jeeps and trucks, but as far as I am aware, armour especially post-war manufactured is still a sticky problem. Investigate it well before proceeding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Justin, I am well known for being blunt and not holding back. You are the seller, the terms should be:- "as is where is, no warranty expressed or implied" You should not be jumping through hoops to export it, it is not your forte. There are others who do this for a living, let them do what they are good at. I would be happy to suggest a name if needs be. The purchaser should be doing his own homework and that is his problem. I agree with others that you want to know what you are doing. Robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinb Posted January 26, 2014 Author Share Posted January 26, 2014 Justin, I am well known for being blunt and not holding back. You are the seller, the terms should be:- "as is where is, no warranty expressed or implied" You should not be jumping through hoops to export it, it is not your forte. There are others who do this for a living, let them do what they are good at. I would be happy to suggest a name if needs be. The purchaser should be doing his own homework and that is his problem. I agree with others that you want to know what you are doing. Robin Agreed robin ,its not something i'll be attempting justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinb Posted January 26, 2014 Author Share Posted January 26, 2014 Hi Justin,I see you are new to the forum, so may not have seen this link from around 8 years ago; http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/archive/index.php/t-975.html I think the French government backed down on banning ownership of jeeps and trucks, but as far as I am aware, armour especially post-war manufactured is still a sticky problem. Investigate it well before proceeding. Hi richard ,apparently there're allowed armour if its demilitarised but he's an rfd so he's apparently exempt .i'm with Robin on this though ,it's basically his problem ,in the nicest possible way . cheers justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulob1 Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 sorry but thats not true, if you export it ie sell it knowing that it is going abroad and there is a licence needed you the owner are still liable to prosecution...you are exporting arms...you do not have a licence then expect porridge for a few years... Withams sell the 432's to uk users only, they were run over the coals for not making it a condition of sale theat they would not be exported...the 432 is a current vehicle and whilst I would be suprised in the 432 does need a licence other than a proper export licence, from the CBI in london, if it does you must get the licence not him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinb Posted January 26, 2014 Author Share Posted January 26, 2014 sorry but thats not true, if you export it ie sell it knowing that it is going abroad and there is a licence needed you the owner are still liable to prosecution...you are exporting arms...you do not have a licence then expect porridge for a few years... Withams sell the 432's to uk users only, they were run over the coals for not making it a condition of sale theat they would not be exported...the 432 is a current vehicle and whilst I would be suprised in the 432 does need a licence other than a proper export licence, from the CBI in london, if it does you must get the licence not him... Ive already half arranged someone so sort the correct export license so my side is sqeaky clean ,if it needs to be demilled etc in france that will be down to him. i know theres plenty of 432s knocking about in europe in private ownership so it must be sortable. justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singaeger Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 I acted as a broker and exported a ww2 Daimler armouredcar last year so have some experience of this process. a 432 cetrainly falls within the definition of military items. type COMMONMILITARY LIST OF THE EUROPEAN UNION into google. It is under sectionML6. Have a look what is also covered by the law, its a very wide range of items! And technically much stuff that is sold on ebay falls within thecoverage. I don’t believe you can demilitarized an armoured vehicle, as it would need to be wholly unarmored! In the case of a 432, removal of the armour would make it a 'pile of spares'. And even in this case each separate individual partwould then need a export license!” an application for export of the vehicle will be needed from SPIRE (departmentof trade and industry) there are many different types if license that will then allow you or the buyer to ship the vehicle into the end destination. The person who gets the license needs to be in the UK so it will need to be the seller ora broker employed by the seller/buyer. The seller, broker and buyers full details need to be provided along with all costs & detailed descriptions of the items. As part of the application approval for the item to be imported(or even shipped through) may need to be obtained from the receiving state if the export application is granted, then a End User Undertaking willneed to be signed. this is required to ensure that the item is not used for certain military related uses. If its found at a latter date to be used as such,its an instant 5 year jail term for everyone involved! once the EUU is signed then the inland revenue need to be informed to ensure that any relevant tax or duty has been paid. once this is approved then a Permissionto ship will be granted. And its free to leave. You are in fact selling and trading ARMS, not Tonka toys and you cant just say its the buyer problem. Cause if you watch the 6 oclock news one night and see your 432 mowing down aload a pedestrians in downtown Damascus/Cairo/Kiev/etc then it will cause you real problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidewinder Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 It is possible to de-mil armoured vehicles. This usually involves cutting out sections of the armour and welding in thin steel plate instead in certain key areas. Usually around the driver, engine and transmission so that if it is used for the wrong reasons the police can shoot through the thin plate and stop the vehicle/driver. Done properly this should not affect the external appearance of the vehicle, but I believe would need to be done before the vehicle leaves the UK. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinb Posted January 26, 2014 Author Share Posted January 26, 2014 Theres some pics in marcus glens gallery of the work being done ,the potential buyer is however a registered firearms dealer and is exempt,the export license will be dealt with by a professional and competent 3rd party . done.justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Grundy Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 ee there is some tripe written on this Thread...... I will not point it out either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Justin, Just so you are aware, I am in Canada and have familiarity with exporting from the UK to Canada. I am not an expert. Speak to a few reputable dealers and they will set you straight on what you need and why. When they tell you they wont export it ask who they suggest. R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singaeger Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) Bob Please feel free to correct any thing in error. Exporting is a complex subject and something we can all learn about. We are after all delving into the depths of European bureaucracy and red tape. (The same organizationthat now makes us obtain an license to take a jeep to Normandy on Holiday). I was steeredthrough the process by very helpful and patient people and both the Departmentof Innovation (Spire) and the inland revenue / customs. But was however thankful that I was exporting what is considered obsolete equipment as it was manufactured prior to 1945 (not that the UK have signed upto this bit of the EU agreement). You invited to share your knowledge.:-) Edited January 27, 2014 by singaeger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Gents, Bob is a reputable dealer and exporter. He will likely not sit here and tell us all his trade secrets and ins and outs, its is what puts bread on his table on a weekly basis, you must respect that. I have been involved with Bob and have purchased items from him and have been involved with a couple of people he has exported stuff for, no problems with what he does. I am not related or in any way affiliated with him or his business. R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snort Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 A few years ago I sold my Ferret to a German buyer, he arrived from Germany with his car and a 9 inch grinder with a supply of thin blades, Cut out 2 letterbox slots ,one where the Driver sits and one near the radiator, He had the drawing from the Officials of where to cut. He then put the 2 letterbox bits in his car :-D (well he had paid in total!) and went back to Germany. Lorry arrives and that was the last I saw of it. Things may well have changed since then but that is what happened at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singaeger Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 He will likely not sit here and tell us all his trade secrets and ins and outs, its is what puts bread on his table on a weekly basis Fair enough. But most of the comments I see above correspond closely to what I have been informed was required by those officials who man the phonelines at the relevent govenment departments. In responce to the other post, I also have had freinds recently buy stuff in the UK, hook it onto the back of there car and tow it off to the continent. Read the 'UK Military List' however and this was technicaly not legal. But they were not stopped and had no problem. You pays your money and takes your choice. We were exporting something that cost many thousands and so would not want it to risk it being impounded. While i think of it, I found an intersting bit of legislation relating to licences to export cultural goods. Ie Certain cultural objects more than 50 years of age and valued above specified financial thresholds see http://www.artscouncil.org.uk/what-we-do/supporting-museums/cultural-property/export-controls/export-licensing/ Its not imposible, if you had a rare and working military vehicle ( say a WW1 tank) for the Govenment to stop it being exported in the interests of the nation. This had occured with some random things such as race car or jewelry. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/culturenews/10216518/Singer-Kelly-Clarkson-prevented-from-taking-Jane-Austens-ring-from-UK.html http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/racing-history/why-shouldnt-the-birkin-bentley-go-abroad/ Singe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Grundy Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 There are no secrets as regards exporting. However there are sometimes questions asked, such as "what is the purpose and function of the water containers?" This is in reference to the black plastic water jerrycans and Export Control need an answer, which is; to convey water to a location where it may be used. And another question from these esteemed public servants " state what military vehicle the Ferret gearbox is for " When making the application specification of the goods or vehicle has to be supplied so it is reasonable to assume that it is for a Ferret, would you agree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singaeger Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) would you agree Yes Bob i would, I too had some odd questions and made sure I gave very carefully considered answers. The main thing i had a problem with was the fact that the vehicle had been significantly dissembled and was therefore no longer an 'armoured car - one number'. I was told that i had to list every loose part that was not fixed to the vehicle (see the UK military list that states components) and that i could not list assemblies. Every part had to be explicitly named and identifiable because they had beenc aught in the past by descriptions such a 'miscellaneous tractor parts' that turned out to be from something very different from tractors. I countered this by asking if they needed a breakdown of every single nut,bolt, washer, valve , tappet, shim, bearing, rod, piston, piston ring, gudgeon pin, oil ring, gasket, casting, pump etc etc that comprised the stripped engine alone. The chap at the end of the phone eventually got the point,that this would be thousands of items and agreed that I could state 'engine dissembled including, pistons, block, head, crankshaft and the like'. I think he became daunted by the huge amount of unnecessary paperwork that he was originally requesting. If I remember correctly I got the vehicle description down to 45 identifiable major part groups. We did briefly consider throwing everything inside and welding shut the hatches but this may have caused inspection problems. For quite a while the Custom said they were going to sendr ound an inspector to ensure what was listed accorded with the documentation /shipping carnet. But in the end they just sent through the permission to ship. Suspect this was more to do with the fact that the weather had turned nasty and they did not want to leave there warm office. Singe www.daimler-fighting-vehicles.co.uk Edited January 29, 2014 by singaeger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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