mcspool Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Yes ,they are as common as muck, particularly the ex British ones ! Rob, I was kidding you of course. I remember seeing one at the Airborne Museum in Oosterbeek decades ago. There's another (the same?) one at the Overloon museum these days. It is astounding what you come up with - keep up the good work! :thumbsup: H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
79x100 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 This is not my area at all, and it may be common knowledge but I see that there is a file in the National Archives relating to the acquisition of these guns. - WO193/517 http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/details?Uri=C164747 Unfortunately, no indication of how large the file is and how easy it would be to copy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted February 4, 2013 Author Share Posted February 4, 2013 This is not my area at all, and it may be common knowledge but I see that there is a file in the National Archives relating to the acquisition of these guns. - WO193/517 http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/details?Uri=C164747 Unfortunately, no indication of how large the file is and how easy it would be to copy. Very Well spotted , I will try and get a copy.. :wow: Rob....................rnixartillery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter4456 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Rob, If you can hang on for a month or two, I'll try and copy the file when I'm next at Kew - I'm a bit nearer than you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted February 5, 2013 Author Share Posted February 5, 2013 Thats very kind of you Thankyou. :thumbsup: Rob...............rnixartillery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebell Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 The 3 photos show 2 different guns. Which is the Hotchkiss, or are they both? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted February 6, 2013 Author Share Posted February 6, 2013 Same gun in all three pics although the first pic shows the gun with the flash hider removed. The flash hider is a foot long on these guns so it was generaly removed whilst loading onto portee's to save it being damaged.The spanner for undoing it was carried on the righ hand trail. Rob.................rnixartillery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted February 7, 2013 Author Share Posted February 7, 2013 A colleague sent me these pics yesterday, Thanks Tobin. Rob..................rnixartillery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 To me that final photo just goes to show why AT Guns were so effective, that would be rather hard to spot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
79x100 Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 I was at the NA for a couple of days last week and managed to find time for this file between the MEE and MoS stuff. It's quite small and contains no fantastic revelations or technical info - it's more to do with the French liason aspect. However, there are some interesting snippets relating to distribution of the guns. Give me a day or two to get the photos turned up the right way and tidied up a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted February 12, 2013 Author Share Posted February 12, 2013 Excellent ! Thanks Rich. Rob..................rnixartillery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter4456 Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Rob, As luck would have it, I managed to get to Kew today and copied the file about these guns. If you PM me you emial address, I'll send it to you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted February 12, 2013 Author Share Posted February 12, 2013 Rob, As luck would have it, I managed to get to Kew today and copied the file about these guns. If you PM me you emial address, I'll send it to you! Peter, Well that makes really interesting reading ! according to the War Department the agreed 280 guns were reduced to 180 and the 1934 Model Gun promised was changed to the 1937 Model. The very odd thing is that all of the black and white photographs of the 25mm Hotchkiss in British service at home and with the BEF are all Model 1934 Anti-Tank guns ! Could this be a major cock up by the War Department ? Rob..................rnixartillery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 Just back from a three day trip to collect parts and the Hotchkiss gun so I took some better pics . The gun is an older restoration and has a nice patina so I think I am going to leave it alone.I did some film work with this gun about 6 years ago on a beach and believe it or not I was cleaning sand out of it today from way back then. :rolleyes: Rob................rnixartillery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happydayz123 Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Well done mate, a great addition to your superb collection stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
79x100 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Peter, Well that makes really interesting reading ! according to the War Department the agreed 280 guns were reduced to 180 and the 1934 Model Gun promised was changed to the 1937 Model. The very odd thing is that all of the black and white photographs of the 25mm Hotchkiss in British service at home and with the BEF are all Model 1934 Anti-Tank guns ! Could this be a major cock up by the War Department ? Rob..................rnixartillery. Rob, I've finally got round to having a good look in this file. It appears that the initial order was for 500 guns and these would have been 1934 pattern. 220 were delivered 'just before the war' and were used to equip 14th A/tk Regt (attached to 4th Division) plus the four regular division anti-tank companies who went first to France and then 5th Div who arrived later in 1939. These are the divisions who feature in the 'phoney war' exercise photos. Only 24 seem to have gone to the UK. This initial delivery of 220 left 280 outstanding of which the British agreed to 100 being supplied to Turkey, leaving a required balance of 180 which seem to have been delayed and there is then the suggestion that these would have to be 1937 pattern (perhaps originally intended for Yugoslavia). Of the outstanding 180 guns, 70 were delivered in February / March 1940, with 50 planned for April and 30 for May. The May deliveries probably never arrived. These guns were used to complete the requirements of 48th, 50th and 51st Divisions (18 each) and to equip 42 and 44 Divs (27 each) - the latter two only went to France in April and were hardly photographed. Most of the rest were intended for BEF reserve so probably never saw action. It looks therefore as if there were at least 196 Model 1934 with units in France by the end of 1939 and possibly a further 108 which may well have been 1937 pattern arriving by April 1940. With the exception of 4th Northumberland Fusiliers from 50th Division, none of these latter divisions appear to have been photographed moving up into Belgium and it would presumably be difficult to discern French-operated Hotchkiss from British in the images of the aftermath. The most likely place to find any might be in the photographs of the end of 51st Divison at St. Valery, if the anti tank guns made it that far. I'll keep an eye open. Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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