BSA Para Bike info Needed!

[ferretfixer]

Hi Folks!

Not sure if this is the correct section to post this. But if not, admin please move to where it should be! 😉

I have just acquired a BSA folding Paratroopers folding bicycle. & There are, as is usually encountered on some of these. Some 'Standard' Bike pedals fitted. which is obviously not as they originally left the factory!

Could anyone assist Me please? With some close-up photos, of the sliding spindle pedals shafts. & Supply dimensions of length, end to end.

& The diameter of the Washer that is rivetted on each end. I will have to make them, unless anyone has one or a Pair, that they would be willing to part with?

Thank you in advance for any Help / Assistance proffered! 👍

Regards to all Fellow Members on here!

Mike. 

[Enigma]

I'll upload pics in a minute.

Did break the bakelite handle bar grip again (foor the 3-4rd time now) when putting the bike back.

[Enigma]

[ferretfixer]

Brilliant! Just what I needed, Thank you Very much indeed! 👍

Kind regards: Mike. 😉

[ferretfixer]

14 hours ago, Enigma said:

I'll upload pics in a minute.

Did break the bakelite handle bar grip again (foor the 3-4rd time now) when putting the bike back.

Sorry to hear you endured some Damage Buddy. I need a pair myself as the grips fitted,are period rubber ones. But not BSA Marked.  I do believe there are repro's available?

Mike

[Enigma]

Glad to be able to help mate.

The grip that broke on mine is I think a repro.

Its quit a thick bakelite while originally there was one complete and part of the original ones on it.

 

Repro's are thicker and noticibly heavier.

Also the repro's are closed one 1 end.

 

Because the original ones are way thinner there is parer between the handlebar and grip itself.

See pic.

 

BEWARE when attaching repro's; don't whack them on! Big risk to break them. Carefully slide them on to find out if they fit loosely or bind up immediately.

I ended up after another breakage to sand it on the inside to reduce its internal diameter and used painters tape on the handlebars before sliding the repro's on. After my repair yesterday I'll sand some more to get a better fit.

In the photo's the 2 original ones on the left, repro on the right

 

[Le Prof]

Hi @Enigma

 As mentioned on the other thread, I'm currently compiling a serial number, detail change for these bikes, and have araond 250 listed at this time. It may be that I already have your serial number, but if you'd like to share details succh as the seril number for inclusion, please let me know,. By PM if you prefer.

Now Stuart Bray Motorcycles has closed, do you know where I can obtain the reproduction grips and transfers?

Thanks for your help.

Best Regards,

 

[sirhc]

4 hours ago, Le Prof said:

Hi @Enigma

 As mentioned on the other thread, I'm currently compiling a serial number, detail change for these bikes, and have araond 250 listed at this time. It may be that I already have your serial number, but if you'd like to share details succh as the seril number for inclusion, please let me know,. By PM if you prefer.

Now Stuart Bray Motorcycles has closed, do you know where I can obtain the reproduction grips and transfers?

Thanks for your help.

Best Regards,

 

I just bought a pair from a guy on Facebook, he’s in the WW2 BSA folding bicycle restoration project group. 
 

My frame number is shown below for your database. 
 

Chris

 

[Le Prof]

Hi Chris @sirhc

Thanks for sharing your number, I appreciate it.

I make that R21005. Here's a screen shot to give you an idea of what I'm doing:

The points recorded above are the serial number, the frame tpe (early twin tube, or later single tube), the original colour, (brown or green), the colour of the undercoat (almost always black, one red example)), the frame hingre (most are cast metal, the very earliest are angle iron), the wingnut (most are smooth, a small number BSA marked), the tommy bar on the handlebar nut. Early ones are welded onto the nut, later, most common 'standard' go through the nut.  And finally, the pedal arm reinforcement. Erly ones are just straight (No), later ones have a boss on the arm end to help support the pedal peg.

If you can supply any of these details it will be further help, thanks.

Your bike is a quite early single seat tube (so called second pattern) version. The early ones were painted brown, and yours is bracketed by original brown ones, but is within 100 frames of a known original green, so it could have been brown originally, or one of the first green ones of the second pattern.

The serial number has the characteristic oversize 2 used at this point.

It would have the early pedal arms with no boss.

It also occurs just before a very small number that were fitted with BSA marked wingnuts on the frame

BSA marked wingnut, cast hinge.

 

Photo Credit, Enigma. Later pedal arm with boss to support pedal peg.

If I can help further, please let me know.

Best Regards,

Adrian

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by Le Prof

[sirhc]

Thanks Adrian, I will get some photos for you later in the week. The bike is now green but it’s likely it’s been repainted at least once. 

[Enigma]

My must be a very late one.

Its in the R48*** range, has a smooth wingnut (no logo), black undercoat, painted green and has all the original decals.

What does quill type and pedal boos mean? (I'm Dutch.)

Still have the original outer tyres (removed from bike) and I think I use a original inner tube.

 

 

BTW, I have seen 1 folding bike with BSA on its individual chain parts.

[ferretfixer]

17 hours ago, Le Prof said:

Hi @Enigma

 As mentioned on the other thread, I'm currently compiling a serial number, detail change for these bikes, and have araond 250 listed at this time. It may be that I already have your serial number, but if you'd like to share details succh as the seril number for inclusion, please let me know,. By PM if you prefer.

Now Stuart Bray Motorcycles has closed, do you know where I can obtain the reproduction grips and transfers?

Thanks for your help.

Best Regards,

 

Hiya, My Serial No: is: R54799. The Frame locking wingnut is smooth.

The BSA Piled arms, & Patent Design Decals / Transfers are available on Ebay. In white, gold & Black.

I am looking for a pair of grips myself!

Kind regards: Mike.

[Le Prof]

Hi @Enigma

Thank you for your reply.

R48XXX would be a 1943, and slightly over mid production. The latest S/N known so far is R77527.

Numbers I have listed close to yours are:

Quill is the correct technical term for the bracket that attaches the handle bars to the steer tube (A ).  Really, I'm interested in the bolt that the tommy bar on the handlebar is attached to (C). I think I will change this heading to Tommy Bar, thanks.

Diagram: Park Tools.

Here is an early Tommy Bar, there is some variation in welding, and only the first 4 or 5000 bikes have this style.

Photos: John Neuenburg

Standard type:

 

The 'Angle Iron brackets look like this, again, an early feature, and seen on the first  2 to 2500 bikes.

Cast type look like this:

Thanks,

Best Regards,

Adrian

 

[Le Prof]

Hi Mike @ferretfixer

Thank you for your reply.

R54799 has now been included. (-: Below are some other known survivors in the same s/n area. There's not much variation, since this is really the final and standard pattern ofthis bike.

Original markings are a rarity, and several of the ones close to yours don't have them any more.

This is R57543, which clearly has the white Patent N°.

But has had the piled rifles erased

Full details here:

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/ww2-bsa-paratrooper-bike.167290/

You seem to have a choice on the piled rifles.

R53105 is slightly before yous, and in near NOS.

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/bsa-paratroopers-paratrooper-british-440653139

Slightly later is R57773, which claims to be (and looks) NOS.

 

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/bsa-paratroopers-paratrooper-british-454042430

If I come across any Grip suppliers, I'll let you know.

Best Regards,

Adrian

 

Edited November 20, 2022 by Le Prof

[Enigma]

My BSA is a ex Scandinavian one.

My quil thinghy and wingnut.

And decals.

 

[Enigma]

Link to grips;

https://www.stuart-bray-motorcycles.co.uk/parts/bsa-parabike-spares/bsa-airborne-parabike-handlebar-grips-2/

[Le Prof]

Hi @Enigma

Thanks for looking for that.

Stuart Bray retired in March, and is no longer selling BSA bicycle parts. So I'm looking for another supplier...

Best Regards,

Adrian

[Enigma]

1 hour ago, Le Prof said:

Hi @Enigma

Thanks for looking for that.

Stuart Bray retired in March, and is no longer selling BSA bicycle parts. So I'm looking for another supplier...

Best Regards,

Adrian

Didn't know that. I'll let you know if I find another supplier.

[garys39]

On 11/19/2022 at 8:51 PM, Le Prof said:

Hi Chris @sirhc

Thanks for sharing your number, I appreciate it.

I make that R21005. Here's a screen shot to give you an idea of what I'm doing:

The points recorded above are the serial number, the frame tpe (early twin tube, or later single tube), the original colour, (brown or green), the colour of the undercoat (almost always black, one red example)), the frame hingre (most are cast metal, the very earliest are angle iron), the wingnut (most are smooth, a small number BSA marked), the tommy bar on the handlebar nut. Early ones are welded onto the nut, later, most common 'standard' go through the nut.  And finally, the pedal arm reinforcement. Erly ones are just straight (No), later ones have a boss on the arm end to help support the pedal peg.

If you can supply any of these details it will be further help, thanks.

Your bike is a quite early single seat tube (so called second pattern) version. The early ones were painted brown, and yours is bracketed by original brown ones, but is within 100 frames of a known original green, so it could have been brown originally, or one of the first green ones of the second pattern.

The serial number has the characteristic oversize 2 used at this point.

It would have the early pedal arms with no boss.

It also occurs just before a very small number that were fitted with BSA marked wingnuts on the frame

BSA marked wingnut, cast hinge.

 

Photo Credit, Enigma. Later pedal arm with boss to support pedal peg.

If I can help further, please let me know.

Best Regards,

Adrian

 

Hi Adrian, another point to note, are that there are 2x types of bottom bracket. One type and the most common is the cast type, the other is the down tube welded directly to the bottom bracket.

You can see the difference in the pictures below,

 Regards Gary

[Le Prof]

Hi Gary @garys39

Thanks (I think....!) (-:

I didn't know about that, it's an interesting observation.

It looks like I'll be having to go back through the listings again. 

It's strange how, other than the twin and single saddle stem types, you tend to assume they are all the same, but the are several variations out there.

This may be an early/late thing.

T13439 early single tube production (my photo), tube welded on to the bottom bracket. 

R47383, mid production (Photo, Wing your Heel) Socket for tube on bottom bracket.

R61090, late production (Photo, Wing your Heel)

The early Twin Tube version has them welded direct to the bottom bracket, so perhaps this was continued onto the single tube version whilst they used up the bottom brackets on hand, or they found there were still problems with strength in this area, and reinfirced it with the socket? We'll see.

R2485, Twin Tube (Photo, Wing your Heel). Note broken frame welds too.

Thanks for your help.

You wouldn't happen to have the serial numbers of those two frames, please?

Best Regards,

Adrian

Edited November 22, 2022 by Le Prof

[ferretfixer]

Adrian, Note also. The Frame cross tube Reinforcement, ONE has a hole. One does not. Not sure if this is an Air hole used when welding originally to allow air pressure to escape? Or its purpose was for a Mudguard? Perhaps taken from other bicycle parts during construction?

 

[Le Prof]

Hi Mike @ferretfixer

It's an interesting point, but I can't get enough pictures of that area to know if it's a real feature, or drilled to fit a mudguard. I suspect the latter.

At the beginning, I noted when the rear drop out lugs had been drilled for mudguards, but I've seen enough now to say the pattern is random, and some of the holes are really badly drilled. So, I'm pretty convinced they had undrilled lugs from the start. 

Gary, @garys39

I've done a first run through looking at the welded versus lugged saddle stems. 

Roughly, R? to R10000 aren't included because they are twin tube saddle stems.

R10000 to R30000 the stems are welded direct to the bottom bracket.

R30000 to R78000 have a lug on the bottom bracket for the stem.

Best Regards,

Adrian

[ferretfixer]

Just ordered the piled arms & patent number decals in white from Ebay.  Still looking for the Black Arrow ( Pheon ) Decal now! 👍

Edited November 23, 2022 by ferretfixer

[Le Prof]

Hi Mike, @ferretfixer

I think white is the best choice.

I'm halfway through reviewing the bikes on my list, and it's surprising how few have the original markings. Also, almost all of the piled rifles are white. All of the patent markings are white, and the pheons black so far.

There's someone selling what appear to be sticker versions here, if nothing else turns up:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261261651518

Best Regards,

Adrian

 

[ferretfixer]

Adrian, Yes I need an Arrow ( Pheon ) but I'm not paying that Price! 🙄

Just a yank trying his luck! As you know, they should be transfers. Not sticky plastic badges!

Regards: Mike 👍