Jeep head gasket woes

[hoppy]

I would like some advice etc on a problem I have got, I may be missing something obvious.........................

 

Last week having a trouble free drive, jeep started spluttering misfiring and a cloud of smoke appeared that a battery of 25lb's would have been proud of.

 

 

Pulled up and after a few thoughtful words checked the oil dipstick and saw a bit of coolant. Long story short recovered home and on taking the head off (afterdraining radiator) found cylinders full of coolant. At the time I cleaned everything through plugs out etc.

 

 

I have replaced the gasket today new oil in coolant topped up and after a few turns the engine turned over and is running very smoothly; HOWEVER I am still getting smoke out of the exhaust, not so much but it still looks as though I'm on fire, I have a lot of moisture coming out of the exhaust, coolant is leaking out of the silencer and it appeares that there is a small trace of coolant on the dipstick, as I said the engine is purring away though; temperature/oil pressures spot on

 

 

What am I missing or done wrong??

[paulbrook]

Sadly just changing a gasket without checking why it went in the first place is a bit of a risk...

 

I think I could write a book on the subject but I wont. Pop the head back off and have a really good look for cracks in the block and the head. It is well worth getting some crack testing dye penetrant off fleabay, and it is always worth getting a post-head gasket failure head skinmmed before it goes back on.

 

If you find nothing and want to put it all back again make sure that all surfaces are spotlessly (and I mean spotlessly) clean and use some wellseal sparingly.

 

Fingers crossed ....

[Richard Farrant]

It would not be unusual for a jeep head to be bowed and renewing the head gasket will not cure the problem, the head would need skimming. If you have to remove the head again, check the head face with a straight edge along its length.

[hoppy]

Sadly just changing a gasket without checking why it went in the first place is a bit of a risk...

 

I think I could write a book on the subject but I wont. Pop the head back off and have a really good look for cracks in the block and the head. It is well worth getting some crack testing dye penetrant off fleabay, and it is always worth getting a post-head gasket failure head skinmmed before it goes back on.

 

If you find nothing and want to put it all back again make sure that all surfaces are spotlessly (and I mean spotlessly) clean and use some wellseal sparingly.

 

Fingers crossed ....

 

Paul

 

The engine has just been rebuilt, head and block were skimmed. The gasket itself is fine and was fitted using copper sealant. I have done no more than 100 miles since the build.

 

I did scrape the old gasket of and rubbed down using fine wet and dry. Would it have been advisable to use some degreaser as well?

 

 

Also would it depend on how well the engine oil was flushed out.

 

And again would there be any issues with coolant being left in from the initial problem?

 

 

 

 

//

[Richard Farrant]

Hoppy,

Does your engine have studs or bolts holding the head on? Could be coolant leaking past the threads and into the combustion chamber, or a block cracked in the inlet port area.

[hoppy]

Hoppy,

Does your engine have studs or bolts holding the head on? Could be coolant leaking past the threads and into the combustion chamber, or a block cracked in the inlet port area.

 

Just before the initial problem noticed that there were a few bubbles which I now suspect was coolant bubbling through one of the nuts holding the head on, that has now stopped.

[Richard Farrant]

Just before the initial problem noticed that there were a few bubbles which I now suspect was coolant bubbling through one of the nuts holding the head on, that has now stopped.

 

I suspect from what you have told us, that there might have been residual coolant in the exhaust system after you renewed the head gasket, and also a water still present in the engine, ie. oil filter, unless you renewed it again. I can recommend a very good sealant to put in the coolant called K-Seal, usually available in motor factors. Might be worth trying this and keeping an eye on things. If it still persists, then further investigation might be necessary. Best of luck.

[Big ray]

Just before the initial problem noticed that there were a few bubbles which I now suspect was coolant bubbling through one of the nuts holding the head on, that has now stopped.

 

Try to attend our next meeting!!!!!

[cosrec]

Try to attend our next meeting!!!!!

 

you havnt told us if the head gasket had blown when striped. but sounds to me like no puolled down rightt

[hoppy]

you havnt told us if the head gasket had blown when striped. but sounds to me like no puolled down rightt

 

Gasket not blown at all

[Richard Farrant]

Gasket not blown at all

 

Hoppy,

You did not say whether the head was held down with bolts or studs. If bolts, then years of dismantling may have worn the threads in the block a bit and coolant is seeping up. Best solution is to replace all bolts with studs (not neccessarily authentic, but a solution to a problem), using a pipe sealer or similar on the threads to keep the coolant at bay.

[hoppy]

I suspect from what you have told us, that there might have been residual coolant in the exhaust system after you renewed the head gasket, and also a water still present in the engine, ie. oil filter, unless you renewed it again. I can recommend a very good sealant to put in the coolant called K-Seal, usually available in motor factors. Might be worth trying this and keeping an eye on things. If it still persists, then further investigation might be necessary. Best of luck.

 

Richard

 

Many thanks for your input.

 

Right this afternoon checked oil filter, on taking the cover off 1 blob of coolant present; on the dipstick 5-6 smallish blobs.

 

Photos attached of filter (hopefully) oil is quite cloudy bearing in mind it's fresh oil.

 

On running up for 2-3 minutes nothing coming out of the exhuast then small amount of steam builing up and moisture leaking out of pipe and front of silencer; also had steam coming from the same front connection to the silencer.

 

 

After replacing gasket I did not flush either oil or radiator.

 

 

 

 

 

The initial reason we think was not the fact the gasket failed; it was brand new with the refit/rebuild. We think that due to being skimmed etc when the head was put back on and torqued down there was a gap between block/gasket. If this is possible I do not not but the block was pressure tested and checked for cracks on the refit.

 

I think I may be right in saying that even a fraction of a thousandeth of an inch would cause a leak.

 

The block incidently has studs.

[Richard Farrant]

 

 

 

 

The initial reason we think was not the fact the gasket failed; it was brand new with the refit/rebuild. We think that due to being skimmed etc when the head was put back on and torqued down there was a gap between block/gasket. If this is possible I do not not but the block was pressure tested and checked for cracks on the refit.

 

 

 

Hi Hoppy,

If both surfaces were skimmed, and absolutely true, then the gasket should have sealed, unless there was a small "foreign body" trapped between the gasket, or the head was not pulled down in the correct tightening pattern. Previous to the rebuild, how was the engine running, and leaking problems then?

[hoppy]

Hi Hoppy,

If both surfaces were skimmed, and absolutely true, then the gasket should have sealed, unless there was a small "foreign body" trapped between the gasket, or the head was not pulled down in the correct tightening pattern. Previous to the rebuild, how was the engine running, and leaking problems then?

 

Richard

 

Engine was running fine (no leaks or anything) upto the point where it began to misfire, the cause of that was a valve insert that came unpinned, the result being that the engine was removed and sent off for the engineering side of things, from there bits and bobs were sorted including block and head skimmed.

 

 

They replaced and refitted the head gasket/head, but due to an oversight on my behalf it was down to me to tighten up. I followed the pattern for tightening up from the manual. As said I have driven about 100 miles since the refit, the only issue was the possibility of coolant leaking from a stud or two.

 

 

The jeep runs OK and I just wonder if it is just a fact that the fluids need a complete flush through; I will have to point I am no mechanic having been bought up with vehicles where you need a computer to plug in.t

 

Many thanks for your time.

[Tony B]

Might well be worth re torquing all the head bolts again. There are some very good add in head/block sealants available now.

[Degsy]

Stick to Dodges Tony......let the jeep experts like Nick sort it out.

[Tony B]

A head is a head, the words check and re torque are universal. :-D

[Pete Ashby]

I wonder just how much coolant you are losing?.

To try to pin things down a little more have a think or disregard the following;

 

If you have a leak head to cylinder I would expect to find that you lose coolant in the form of vapour out of the exhaust and pressurise your cooling system. Visible signs can be water constantly blown out of the overflow ( don't get confused by a little as the stat opens and the system comes up to temperature that's normal)or if you remove the rad cap bubbles or a lot of froth in the header tank (this may only be evident after the engine reaches running temperature).

 

Try doing a compression test although in the case of a water jacket/cylinder leak this may not be definitive.

 

You may have a crack in the distributor shaft housing in the block, this is not uncommon and will result in oil dilution without loss of compression however I would not expect to see any vapour from your exhaust as this is independent from the combustion chambers, unless it's extreme and you are sucking vapour out of the sump back into the inlet manifold via the closed breather when the engine comes up to temperature. I don't think this is likely but it ties in with my first question how much and how quickly is your coolant going down.

 

As Richard has already said you may well have a head/gasket/block face/ stud/bolt issue I'm afraid it could be any one, or a combination of these, a compression test may help to narrow this down a little but you may well be down to stripping the head and careful observation for signs of water stain/rust marks and then doing as Richard suggests.

 

Not really a definitive answer I'm afraid, with the type of problem you have it's very much a case of working methodically away from the most obvious and least expensive answer until you find the cause. I would suggest you get a pad and pencil and as you try/examine each option write the findings and results of tests down, you will think you'll remember but you wont and it will save you time and money in the long run.

 

Good luck

 

Pete

[hoppy]

I wonder just how much coolant you are losing?.

To try to pin things down a little more have a think or disregard the following;

 

If you have a leak head to cylinder I would expect to find that you lose coolant in the form of vapour out of the exhaust and pressurise your cooling system. Visible signs can be water constantly blown out of the overflow ( don't get confused by a little as the stat opens and the system comes up to temperature that's normal)or if you remove the rad cap bubbles or a lot of froth in the header tank (this may only be evident after the engine reaches running temperature).

 

Try doing a compression test although in the case of a water jacket/cylinder leak this may not be definitive.

 

You may have a crack in the distributor shaft housing in the block, this is not uncommon and will result in oil dilution without loss of compression however I would not expect to see any vapour from your exhaust as this is independent from the combustion chambers, unless it's extreme and you are sucking vapour out of the sump back into the inlet manifold via the closed breather when the engine comes up to temperature. I don't think this is likely but it ties in with my first question how much and how quickly is your coolant going down.

 

As Richard has already said you may well have a head/gasket/block face/ stud/bolt issue I'm afraid it could be any one, or a combination of these, a compression test may help to narrow this down a little but you may well be down to stripping the head and careful observation for signs of water stain/rust marks and then doing as Richard suggests.

 

Not really a definitive answer I'm afraid, with the type of problem you have it's very much a case of working methodically away from the most obvious and least expensive answer until you find the cause. I would suggest you get a pad and pencil and as you try/examine each option write the findings and results of tests down, you will think you'll remember but you wont and it will save you time and money in the long run.

 

Good luck

 

Pete

 

Pete

 

Many thanks, I think the methodical approach will work out; I hope. What gets me is the the engine has just come back from being worked on, new valves pistons rings etc.

[hoppy]

Try to attend our next meeting!!!!!

 

Ray

 

Would do but working nights and can not get time off. Will keep scratching my head and see about next months meeting.

[Big ray]

Ray

 

Would do but working nights and can not get time off. Will keep scratching my head and see about next months meeting.

No problem, I will bring it to everyones attention at the meeting......... I`ll be back in touch.

[Big ray]

Hi Hoppy,

If both surfaces were skimmed, and absolutely true, then the gasket should have sealed, unless there was a small "foreign body" trapped between the gasket, or the head was not pulled down in the correct tightening pattern. Previous to the rebuild, how was the engine running, and leaking problems then?

 

Hi, you say that you pulled the head down in the correct order, but I dont see any reference to allowing the engine to tick-over to obtain normal running temperature, and then re-tighten the head studs whilst warm.?????? did you do that ?

Regards.

Ray.

[hoppy]

Hi, you say that you pulled the head down in the correct order, but I dont see any reference to allowing the engine to tick-over to obtain normal running temperature, and then re-tighten the head studs whilst warm.?????? did you do that ?

Regards.

Ray.

 

Ray

 

Must admit I was chatting to a good mate tonight as he dropped a hedge cutter off, he asked how the jeep was going so I gave him all the woes......

 

During our chat he asked the same question, now the engine was run up to temperature before being driven but must admit the studs were not tightened up at all.

[Big ray]

 

Using the same sequence, torque the head down again when you have reached working temperature. Good luck, and I hope that it cures your problem. ( Just allow it to tick over to reach working temperature)

[hoppy]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]68153[/ATTACH] Using the same sequence, torque the head down again when you have reached working temperature. Good luck, and I hope that it cures your problem. ( Just allow it to tick over to reach working temperature)

 

Right

 

Today refitted new filter/oil and coolant with a tub of K-seal mixed in with the coolant; run engine up on tick over with no issues for about 5 minutes and the torqued up as per manual, just as it appeared that my luck was in fumes appeared again.

 

 

There were no bubbles in the coolant and overall after cooling down the coolant level has not dropped; also no coolant in the breather pipe/overflow. Oil level fine not a trace of anything else.

 

Not a great deal of moisture present from the exhaust, I held a bit of clean dry card up against it. Last time I ran the engine up there was more water present than in your average British summer.

 

Engine in itself is still running fine, no misfires/stuttering etc, run for about 10 minutes today.

 

Pictures of what is happening attached; I hope.