Looks like the Kabul MVT is off to a good start

[iltisman]

http://bfbs.com/news/afghanistan/british-army-vehicles-may-be-abandoned-afghanistan-51883.html

[ferrettkitt]

Another waste of tax payers money if it does happen.

[Niels v]

The danish army leaves some of its. they are completly worn down by the dust.

[Pzkpfw-e]

Join the Russian kit left there!

Let alone the Renault FT17s, Duttons & the Hawker Hinds.

[RattlesnakeBob]

it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone ..

armys almost always do leave the gear behind....look at those recent photos of the WW2 dumps in europe and the far east that have appeared on here over the last couple of weeks.....

....then think of how much the Yanks left in Vietnam .....and the last photo link to the soviet dumps still out there in Afghanistan .....

At the end of the day if you 'add in' how worn out a lot of the kit probably is cos of the harsh terrain and use......then add up the cost of shipping it back here..then add in the cost of a complete overhaul for each vehicle once it gets here....

.then compare to the price of a brand new vehicle should we have need of one like it again...

....it comes down to simple accountancy I reckons....:-D

[M.Rimmer]

Bob,I don't think we can really compare WWII or Vietnam with Afganistan. After the Second World War there were political reasons for the large scale dumping of vehicles and other equipment,and when the Americans pulled out of Vietnam the South were still fighting the Communist North so much of the equipment was not dumped as such but given to the South Vietnamese.

 

Leaving kit in Afgan is ridiculous IMO,all we are doing is supplying the Taliban.

[Enigma]

Bob,I don't think we can really compare WWII or Vietnam with Afganistan. After the Second World War there were political reasons for the large scale dumping of vehicles and other equipment,and when the Americans pulled out of Vietnam the South were still fighting the Communist North so much of the equipment was not dumped as such but given to the South Vietnamese.

 

Leaving kit in Afgan is ridiculous IMO,all we are doing is supplying the Taliban.

 

After WW2 the liberated army's needed MV's for re-armamant. In the Netherlands especially GMC's were used by contracters to rebuilt roads, bridges and transport all kind of goods.

 

Also keep in mind the US army didn't need all those vehicles anymore and selling them to the public would kille the auto industry because lots of people would have bought old MV's instead of brand new civvie ones.

[paulbrook]

There will be many (even in the military) who will want to do this - bringing them back would make it difficult to justify "new" projects like FRES.

 

I remember there being a similar idea to gift the Iraqis SAXON...Luckily the Iraquis said no thanks..

[paulbrook]

Oh and by the way a MASTIFF III is about £1.5 million; you can get a lot of shipping space for that. And the military still have a couple of RoRos of their own, so in my view (and I do know a thing or two about it) the economic equation doesn't add up.

 

Giving the Afghans decent kit does make sense however.

[M.Rimmer]

I agree Paul about giving the Afgans kit,but how long before it ends up in Taliban hands?.

[RattlesnakeBob]

I agree Paul about giving the Afgans kit,but how long before it ends up in Taliban hands?.

 

mmmhhhhh..well...I suppose its probably intended that we're leaving the gear there for the 'new' Afghan army to use.........

................ but.......I guess it should be keep in mind that.....

.....none of the kit left in Vietnam was 'intentionally' left for the NVA ..

.....but they got it soon enough ........... :cool2:

and besides all of those considerations.........

has anyone considered that there could easily be some manner of agreement in place between the MoD and the vehicle suppliers here that none of those vehicles wil ever appear 'for sale' back here in the UK?

after all .........

in much the same manner as the US companies after WW2....

..they're hardly gonna want their possible future sales markets to either an army (ours or someone else's) or the 'private sectior' being fouled up by a load of 'used gear' being available are they?..........

call me Mr Cynical if you want........

but from what I've understood of the shady sheenanigans of defence procurement over the last 20 years or so nothing would surprise me.............

Edited September 28, 2011 by RattlesnakeBob

[berna2vm]

I think it is an outrageous idea. Why don't they let us have them for free as long as we pay for the shipping. This is fair. We paid for them in the first place. lol...

[Paul Drake]

A total outrage and waste of the taxpayers money, because we will have to buy them all over again new when our next war kicks off. But the MoD didn't think of that the last time either!

[Haridimos]

Τoo big, too heavy to bring them back...

But, someone will wonder " you have the C-17, why don't you use them?"

 

 

 

 

 

[rambo1969]

If vehciles are going to be left behind, imagine what else will be left?

Must admit, I had a feeling this was comming.

As for falling into the talibans hands, the afgan army already slip them gear, was talking to a member of HM forces last year who had been to afgan, he said the afgan army sell thier personal weapons on a regular basis.

[recymech66]

Τoo big, too heavy to bring them back...

But, someone will wonder " you have the C-17, why don't you use them

 

All these equipments are flown in by Russian crewed Ilyushin aircraft. They will probably be flown out the same way. Not a chance they will be left for the Afghan National Army.

[AndyFowler]

Τoo big, too heavy to bring them back...

But, someone will wonder " you have the C-17, why don't you use them?"

 

 

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[ATTACH=CONFIG]51653[/ATTACH]

 

They are a beast ! Here's the one at this years Great Dorset Steam Fair ! Seems a little unfair to saddle the Afgans with any junk that we feel is worthless ! I thought we are supposed to recycle everything now ! Must be only if it suits em , again !:cry:

[timbo]

I agree Paul about giving the Afgans kit,but how long before it ends up in Taliban hands?.

 

I see the point but what would the Taliban want with Mastiffs - not their style at all, now if we were leaving behind Toyota pick-ups that would be different...

[paulbrook]

You could get all the new vehicles we have in Afghanistan in 2 or 3 RoRos.

 

As I said, cost isn't an issue in transportation terms.

 

One of the real issues is the fact that all this stuff was purchased (and is supported) by a thing called the Operational Contingency Fund (used to be the Conflict Prevention Fund) or whatever it is called this week. This is HM Treasury funding not MOD - it comes on top of the MOD budget.

 

If they come back and remain in service they have to be "taken into core" in other words the Defence budget has to start paying for them. And as the Defence budget is already spoken for, there is no money to do that unless something else is cancelled. So in many respects you can see MH Treasury arguing that they should go into defence (and the defence vote therefore take the hit) whilst MOD might be saying - er - sorry George, not our purchase not our problem.

 

As taxpayers (especially in the current climate) we should be saying Oi! Stop messing around with our money. If we dont put our collective feet down we will end up paying twice or the Army (and others) will have to do without decent kit that has been a long time coming.

 

And the kit is very very very good indeed.

 

Apart from SPRINGER

 

Which although fun is just plain daft for what it was bought for.

[Jolly Jeeper]

The Taliban won't want Land Rovers and similar - they're dedicated Toyota drivers...