sirhc Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Looking at the pictures Chris has posted two possible solutions spring to mind:- i) Wider drums with second set of brake bands on. Could even be bolt on add-ons to the original drums say back to back. ii) How about a diff lock device so if the brake on one side fails locking the diff would at least allow the other side braking to pull the vehicle up straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferrettkitt Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 How much space is there in the engine bay gearbox area? If enough space would it be possible to add disc brakes on the output shafts? Somewhere along the way I used to be a printer on the rewind units the most efficient way of stopping a reel of paper four foot in diameter was to use an air applied disc brake. Many moons ago I had a Capri and the club used to market drum to disc brake conversions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landyandy Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 exactly my thinking about discs mounted on drive shafts and separate foot brake on drivers floor,will look into this as it could be a little engineering challenge for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff66 Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 all very well looking at alternative braking arrangements ,but how are u going to prove that they comply with c&u if involved in a accident? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 all very well looking at alternative braking arrangements ,but how are u going to prove that they comply with c&u if involved in a accident? Presumably some form of VOSA inspection would be required before registration. Or by independant engineers report. more food for thought, Discussion welcomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landyandy Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Presumably some form of VOSA inspection would be required before registration. Or by independant engineers report. more food for thought, Discussion welcomed. that would be the way forward in that respect i think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landyandy Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 if i,m correct in thinking the average weight of 430 series is between 13 to 15 tons and top speed 26 mph ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 [ATTACH=CONFIG]47541[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]47542[/ATTACH] Presumably, when we talk about drive shaft failure leaving no brakes, we are talking about the output shafts shown green on this diagram? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 The steering box looks like this... The brake bands, which are used for both breaking and steering, are inside the unit. There are 2 shafts which connect the steering box to each final drive, and a prop shaft from the gearbox to the input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 View from inside with the pack removed... View from the front hatch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landyandy Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 i will have to look into this as space looks to be a premium,we have plenty of scrappers around the museum,i will have a good look at what can be done on the disc job and wether there is enough room to do it,any answers on my previous question as disc size depends on weight and speed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 if i,m correct in thinking the average weight of 430 series is between 13 to 15 tons and top speed 26 mph ? Mine would do 32mph! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landyandy Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Mine would do 32mph! approx weight is ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue red blue Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 "As regards the issue of any old tom dick and harry buying one and going on the road after an hour on a mini digger is just a little silly really. I doubt that happens." blimey , of course it does, just as ringers taken driving tests for there mates, because these wagons are so cheep and nut job can buy one.it wont be the likes of the drivers on here that will cause the accident, it will be the nutter who has more money than sense that doesnt do the required maintence etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 approx weight is ? According to the book unladen is 13.74 Tonnes, and its weight laden is 15.28 tonnes . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landyandy Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 According to the bookunladen is 13.74 Tonnes, and its weight laden is 15.28 tonnes . cool will work it out on all up weight of 18 tons to give a little safety factor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firetrucker Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 As Michael Cain said "listen lads iv got a plan" Has anybody got some plans of the engine-gearbox-steering box and final drive please...mailnly focusing on drive shafts. Or a link? I have an idea, thats simple, that was used on a Kenworth aerodyne stgo vehicle I had. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 cool will work it out on all up weight of 18 tons to give a little safety factor 434 must be heavier, and Abbot? A one solution which fits all would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk3iain Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 all very well looking at alternative braking arrangements ,but how are u going to prove that they comply with c&u if involved in a accident? Surely it would be the same as any mod. to a car. If backed up by the calcs used and any testing done to prove safe performance, at say 1.5 x gross weight and an independant chartered engineers report. No one can or would give a 100% guarantee but the figures used and independant report should surely suffice! Definately worth a shot or two!!:goodidea: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 (edited) http://www.fv432.co.uk/Documents/Documents%20PDFs/fv430seriestech/Chapter%205%20Steering.PDF quote"If an output shaft breaks in normal bevel pinion differential the vehicle has no drive, but with a controlled differential the vehicle still has drive in a straight line, providing one brake is applied and the drum is stopped. However, application of one steering lever will grve a different speed of drive to the serviceable side, than would the application of the other steering lever." and quote" 5.8 STEERING UNIT ALIGNMENT It is VITAL that the steering unit (original or new) is re-aligned to the final drives when fitted to the vehicle. It is important that steering unit output shafts are aligned to within 0.015" in both the horizontal and vertical planes; and that the angular displacement is within 0.030" . WARNING If the steering unit alignment is not checked and adjusted, the solid drive shafts will begin to loosen the coupling securing bolts. Should these bolts sheer and the couplings disengage, ALL STEERING AND BRAKING WILL BE LOST." That doesn't sound like a highly unlikely event, How many amateur mechanics have access to the necessary gauges, or associated skill and patience, etc to carry this operation out to the required degree of accuracy? How many have changed steering unit having never read these instructions? How many 432's are out there with the bolts coming loose at this very minute? Edited July 4, 2011 by antarmike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landyandy Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 434 must be heavier, and Abbot? A one solution which fits all would be nice. abbot being about 17 tons loaded ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landyandy Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 The steering box looks like this... [ATTACH=CONFIG]47548[/ATTACH] The brake bands, which are used for both breaking and steering, are inside the unit. There are 2 shafts which connect the steering box to each final drive, and a prop shaft from the gearbox to the input. any chance you know the diameter of drive shafts ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landyandy Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 has there ever been an instace of a drive shaft breaking on a preserved vehicle ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 has there ever been an instace of a drive shaft breaking on a preserved vehicle ?? More a case of bolts coming loose, to the point where the securing bolts shear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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