news Dangers of Biofuel.

[Rick W]

Passed on to me by Mogman (Thank you as converting files was curdling my tiny mind). An interesting read on fuel. If this contravenes any forum rules, mods pleas free to delete, but it is worthwhile reading and has consequences for all of us. Article is not written by me, but has consent.

 

 

THE DANGERS OF BIOFUELS

I wonder how many of our members are aware that at present, there is an EU Directive that authorises governments to set the level of biologically obtained fuels in petrol: the usual additive being Ethanol. There is no minimum level but until 2013 the specification is for “Ethanol5”. This contains up to 5% Ethanol- as well as Benzene, a known carcinogen!

From 2013 the mix may contain 10% Ethanol and that’s where the problems start. The British Government has commissioned a report on the known and expected effects of Ethanol10 on the internal combustion engine – not just for 2 & 4 wheeled vehicles but also Chain saws, generators, pleasure craft, motor mowers etc. The investigation was carried out by QinetiQ (the Govt. Defence organisation) and the Report (on their website but not released to the press) is Report 01/02/11: “Assessing Fuel System Compatibility with BioEthanol & Carburettor Icing” Effects expected, based on studies in other countries already using this mix, show heavy carbon deposits in the cylinder head, such that valves cease to rotate, stop inlet valves closing with loss of compression and, in addition, can fall off and become trapped in the cylinder, causing internal engine damage. In addition, E10 petrol blends severely corrode aluminium products, leading to catastrophic component failure. Carburettored vehicles suffer severe corrosion if water is present (and E10 is hygroscopic). Brass components are also corroded (carb.jets?).

Orbital Australia PTY LTD reported that all carburetted cars in their study contained materials that had doubtful compatibility, even with E5 and worsened with the presence of E10 petrol. Of particular concern here was tarnishing and corrosion of brass metering compounds (needle & main jets,etc.). The sole solution found by them was replacement of all brass components with more expensive alloys, such as nickel silver. In addition, this study found that corrosion rates in the presence of “wet” ethanol were up to 400 times greater than with the “dry” product. This increase was due to the impurities in the water generating electrochemical reactions (cases have been reported of extreme corrosion in steel underground storage tanks, caused by water seepage into the E10mix.).

QinetiQ reports aggressive attack on non-metals by E10 (examples included GRP fuel tanks, elastomer [rubber type] fuel lines, plastic fuel lines, pump seals, etc.). Resistance to E10 increases with increasing fluorine content, but 8 types of material are listed as at risk : 1) ABS; 2) Nylon 6; 3) Nylon 66; 4)PBT; 5)PET; 6) PEI; 7) PUR, 8) PVC (flexible). ABS failed after 1 week immersion, PUR, PVC & PBT all gave cause for concern, being seriously affected. An Indian report (Nihalani) reported increased failure of elastomers on motorcycles when E10 fuel was made available from pumps.

The report goes on to to state that in Europe 1st generation fuel-injected cars (roughly 2004-2006) had high pressure fuel pumps that are incompatible with the E10 mix (presumably due to high aluminium content of these). In France, pre-2000 cars are reportedly being damaged causing widespread breakdowns. So much so that in 2009 the French Government advised all owners of vehicles 9 years old or older(!) not to use E10 biofuel. This country is maintaining sales of grades of petrol with a much lower Ethanol content specifically for such vehicles (2 or 4 wheeled). Recently there has been a spate of reports of fuel hose failure after 6 months’ use of E10 biofuel, together with fuel pump failure due to debris from in-tank hose failure caused by material incompatibility.

Vintage vehicles are also reporting overheating problems, such that QinetiQ has “informally” requested that a “major UK motoring organisation” (my italics) report any increase in fuel-related breakdowns. A graph appears in the report with results that show on average 1,000 vehicle breakdowns /month from this cause: I feel this to be of major cause for concern for the MCC, many members do use the vehicles directly affected. Of particular concern to us is that after 2013 (less than 2 years time, remember! ) E5 will be phased out and replaced with this E10 bio-Ethanol: only two motorcycle manufacturers specifically state that their products are not affected . (These are at the upper end of the market).

The report estimates that around 4.5 of the 9 million vehicles on our roads will be 9 years old or older by 2013 and not able to run without problems, with thousands of motorcycles having “severe problems”. It goes on to write that the cost of overcoming these problems in these “elderly” (again, my italics) vehicles could prove prohibitive: apparently, the authors of the report have found that 27,000 people in the UK earn all or part of their living serving the historic vehicle movement and that many of these are already finding owners are experiencing significant problems, even using E5 fuel. This trade is found to be worth £3 billion annually to this country, with exports totally £300 million of this.

The remainder of the report is around the subject of carburettor icing (a phenomenon well–known to us Beetle owners, as well as VW engine powered light aircraft. As an aside, addition of ethanol (not E5 or E10 biofuel) to petrol is a known method of combating this problem .

So what does all this mean to us owners of historic & elderly vehicles?? Already there are well reported problems with fuel tank linings that have been trouble free for years, many just disintegrating or decomposing after using this biofuel. The situation worsens with stale fuel and has led to fires & total failures of glass fibre tanks (the resin dissolves). The recommendations of the report are several – one is the total ban on E5 and E10 for light aircraft (on safety grounds)as well as maintaining low or zero Ethanol content fuels for historic & vintage machinery. Before we all start jumping up & down with joy, look at the cost of the present stock of genuine 4-star leaded fuel – as well as the problems of finding it, not considering the cost per litre! How many small, country filling stations on the route of our long-distance events will stock this fuel?

Maybe it’s just me, but is this part of the green” movement’s hidden agenda to get rid of all “old” vehicles as well as us inconvenient philistines, who value production of food before that of biofuels? What can we do, then? Buttonhole your MP for a start, badger your Council to oppose this introduction – write/email the Dept. of Transport & your local radio TV station, point out the probable loss of a huge chunk of the national economy - need I go on ?? Start thinking about this – we’ve no time left!

Ron Butcher Vice President The Motor Cycling Club

[private mw]

one of my recent employers tried running our skip lorries on it till he got fed up of having us towed in ! from breakdowns :sweat:

[N.O.S.]

I really don't think this is a conspiracy theory way of getting rid of old vehicles - but I do think it is a panicstricken rush into trying to save the planet without thinking things through first and then going about it in a sensible way.

 

On the other hand, perhaps we don't have time to think things through - but then again if we can't even save ourselves (although we'll bankrupt ourselves trying :laugh: - just think how much we don't do in this country anymore 'cos the environmental cost is too high to do it economically, but instead we buy in from other countries which don't have such restrictive environmental regulations - doh! no wonder it is cheaper....:nut:), whatever chance do we have of saving the world?

 

Erm, was that too heavy? I'll just go and have another biocoffee.

Edited May 18, 2011 by N.O.S.

[cosrec]

i have read similar reports about the effects of eating bread.

Facts nobody from the 1847 cenus who ate bread are alive to day

100 percent of people who have been instutionalised in lunatic assilums and prisons have eaten bread at some time .

People who have been subjected to a diet of bread and water for any length of time and have the bread with drawn get a craving for bread.

The majority of people who appear in court on serious assult charges rape and divorce proceedings have eaten bread.

Facts deduced from above bread causes death

bread causes insanity and makes people criminals

bread is adictive

bread causes violence and the break up of the family life so therefore we should stop making it now Before we kill the human race

Edited May 18, 2011 by cosrec

[mike65]

Bio fuels do not save the planet they destroy it and lead to starvation.

Why you ask.

 

The poorer nations descide they need money, so rather than growing crops for food they grow crops to feed the oil companies with the "bio fuel".

Then they get greedier and start ripping out rain forest etc to grow more bio fuel crops.

 

As such food supplies get less and the demand means the price of this goes up, but never to a llevel that makes it more profitable than fuel products.

 

I suppose in the long run it saves the planet as we will all have succumbed to starvation.

 

The problem of ethanol and dissolving fuel systems has been a well known problem for many years now, just ask anybody who run an alki burning dragster.

 

Mike

[Grasshopper]

I work in the rail industry and my company has had issues arising from the biofuel content in diesel. The fuel used can contain up to 7% biofuel without the supplier informing you!

 

This has led problems with MBC (micro biological contamination) which is a bug that grows in the diesel and clogs up your lines and filters (also causes the same problem when it is killed), and now we seem to have another problem with a tar-like substance in the fuel.

 

We are working with Qinetiq on these issues, and the future does not look good. Royal Navy are also having major MBC issues, their MBC eats away stainless fuel tanks!

[diver99]

i have read similar reports about the effects of eating bread.

Facts nobody from the 1847 cenus who ate bread are alive to day

100 percent of people who have been instutionalised in lunatic assilums and prisons have eaten bread at some time .

People who have been subjected to a diet of bread and water for any length of time and have the bread with drawn get a craving for bread.

The majority of people who appear in court on serious assult charges rape and divorce proceedings have eaten bread.

Facts deduced from above bread causes death

bread causes insanity and makes people criminals

bread is adictive

bread causes violence and the break up of the family life so therefore we should stop making it now Before we kill the human race

 

Are you sure its bread, i thought it was potatoes?

[N.O.S.]

Just goes to prove what a complete load of muppets we are - look at what we've achieved over the centuries in terms of innovative engineering, and now look at how we're 'gumming' it all up (if you excuse the pun) by rushing into changes.

 

How do we get them to stop these kneejerk reactions like messing about with fairy fuels without proper consultation and due diligence - and a bit of forethought?

[schliesser92]

They (the German government) virtually forced the sale of E10 (10 % Ethanol) fuel, and, like a muppet, I tried it - but only once. I tanked up 40l in my POV (a Hyundai Getz) and drove from Franfurt to Duesseldorf to visit my mother. 225km each way. Compared to other times, driving in the same manner (maybe not according to my navigation system!), I used up to 20% more fuel. So no savings, which was the government's "white lie". I also noticed problems in going up steep hills.

 

Not wishing to damaged my engine, I've gone back to destroying the planet!

[ruxy]

These things go in circles - often before their time.

 

This plant was at ICI Billingham , hardly ran from 1980 - probably chopped up for scrap..

 

http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10320664

[Stefano]

How do we get them to stop these kneejerk reactions like messing about with fairy fuels without proper consultation and due diligence - and a bit of forethought?

 

Unleaded fuel was just as cretinous - The whole rationale that surrounded it's introduction was spurious, catalyctic converters are expensive and don't work most of the time, and the hideous things that they put in the paraffin that nowadays passes for petrol is beyond belief. Back in the day, I used to wash components with four star - no fear of me doing that now with the rubbish they sell us. However, having said that, apart from a ridiculously short shelf life, unleaded hasn't proved as disastrous in use as we were led to expect.

The same bunch of morons are now at it again - ever more toxic fuel being foisted on us for a set of reasons that again won't stand up to any sort of scrutiny. Let's hope that the powers that be come to their senses before they introduce the stuff or (more likely) ways are found for us to live with it.

Europe's capacity for complicating even the simplest things in life never ceases to amaze

[Grasshopper]

We're probably better off trying to run our vehicles on water as the content of it in fuel goes up!

 

Had a trial of a fuel tank cleaning system at work today due to the ammount of "gunk" in them (well we would have if they had brought the correct adaptors and transformer for it!).

[Tony B]

Don't forget to comply with the latest Eurotrash you have to use Adblue. Extra cost, and perfectly safe- Until burnt or acidentally mixed with all the common sort of cleaning products you'd use on a spill.

[Zero-Five-Two]

My personal belief is this planet has been going through cycles of global warming/ice ages for the last few million decades, and we the Human race are just a tiny little time span in the great scheme. The next cycle is coming (sometime in the next few thousand years) and we ain't going to stop it happening.

 

All these things like bio fuel, Congestion charging, Low Emission Zones etc, etc only serve to wind up the media hype. They wont change anything, it just gives the greedy corporations an excuse to charge more for things because they say their product is environmentally friendly.

 

I don't agree with wasting our resources, be it oil or trees, etc and yes one day it will run out. But I do think while we've got it we might as well make the most of it. I'd rather have the real stuff anyday

[berna2vm]

Biofuel is seriously bad news, corrosion in tanks, contamination and blockages pumps expireing prematurely... And unleaded fuel that in my motorcycles the lay up between October and April is enough to necessitate draining the tanks and putting fresh fuel in before they will start. What we buy at the pumps now is rubbish!!!:-(

[Tony B]

Good thing about the older vehicles. They run on the old fuel as easily as the new. Designers try to get so much performance out of small engines. Why? The maximum speed in most places is 70 mph or the equivalent KM, so who needs an 850cc that will do 2000 mph? Slightest change in fuel or lubrication it all goes haywire.

[ruxy]

Biofuel is seriously bad news, corrosion in tanks, contamination and blockages pumps expireing prematurely... And unleaded fuel that in my motorcycles the lay up between October and April is enough to necessitate draining the tanks and putting fresh fuel in before they will start. What we buy at the pumps now is rubbish!!!:-(

 

===========================

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Briggs-Stratton-Fuel-Fit-Additive-Stabiliser-999005-/250753590439?pt=UK_Home_Garden_GardenPowerTools_CA&hash=item3a621424a7

[Tony B]

After reading this, considering the reputation of French petrol I did some hunting about and came up with a very intresting report on French fuel standards.

 

 

 

 

European Directive 2003/30/EC

 

 

that prescribes the use of 5.75% biofuels in transportation in 2010,

 

 

According to CGB (representing the French sugar beet producers) and EurObserv’ER,

Total is not in favour of pure blending of bio-ethanol in gasoline. One reason is that the

vapour pressure of the base gasoline would have to be reduced to make the blend meet

the European gasoline specifications. The other reason that is mentioned is that Total

prefers to valorise the refinery by-product isobutylene by converting ethanol into ETBE.

 

 

Total states that it is technically not so easy to blend ethanol directly in gasoline [9, 10,

 

And of course, why we may yet escape

 

Directive 2003/96/EC Directive on restructuring the Community framework for the taxation of

energy products and electricity. This directive allows total or partial tax

 

 

exemptions for fuels from renewable resources, including biomass.

For those who wish to dredge through the lot: http://www.lowcvp.org.uk/assets/reports/PREMIA_France-biodiesel-ETBE.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[andym]

It's interesting to note that the report was commissioned from QinetiQ (who, by the way, are a commercial company, not a Government Research Organisation!) by the DfT, who are presumably therefore worried about the effects of biofuel. It's been suggested elsewhere that it may cause the DfT to say that Ethanol5 should be retained rather than moving to Ethanol10.

 

A question - if the government forces the introduction of fuel it knows to have damaging effects on engines, what happens about compensation claims?

 

Andy

[mike65]

Just read the instructions for my new lawn mower (had it a couple of months) has a Briggs & Stratton motor in it.

Basically it says "DO NOT USE FUEL MORE THAN A MONTH OLD"

Runs OK.

Mind you the hedge trimmer was smoking heavily today and smelt a bit funny. Could be because I am down to the last of the 2 stroke mix. Had it for 2 years.

 

Mike

[Tony B]

It's interesting to note that the report was commissioned from QinetiQ (who, by the way, are a commercial company, not a Government Research Organisation!) by the DfT, who are presumably therefore worried about the effects of biofuel. It's been suggested elsewhere that it may cause the DfT to say that Ethanol5 should be retained rather than moving to Ethanol10.

 

A question - if the government forces the introduction of fuel it knows to have damaging effects on engines, what happens about compensation claims?

 

Andy

QuinetiQ ( a £50,000 spelling mistake, but that's another story) took over the POL responsobilitys from D.E.R.A.

[andym]

QuinetiQ ( a £50,000 spelling mistake, but that's another story) took over the POL responsobilitys from D.E.R.A.

 

I know - I work for them! And it's QinetiQ, as in "kinetic" but unfortunately that name had already been registered as a domain on the 'net, hence the odd spelling.

 

Andy

[Tony B]

Yes mate, Seiko had it as trademark from about 1970! Ah the joys of when DERA worked, Do first paper later.

[Giles]

Just to upset the applecart ( should that be the affle-vagen?) - I brew my own bio from waste cooking oil and have been running my TD5 Defender on it at 100% for about 16000m now. I do add about 1 gallon per tank full during temperatures below -5. It runs smoother, quieter and I have been asked at a set of lights for 'cod & chips twice' otherwise no side effects at all. Uses same amount of fuel but so much quieter. I would not run it on new cooking oil because that encourages further production of the oil.

[Rick W]

I think a lot of it depends on the vehicle, I do believe the TD5 engine will run quite happily on it, as will a lot of other vehicles. I get the impression that the danger is more long term and for older vehicles.