what are saracens like for towing stuff

[haybaggerman]

We are trapped here in the back roads of Devon, the council won't grit the road as we don't "meet their criteria". However, several jobs might well depend on some artics getting in and out of here before xmas.

 

We managed to get an artic out yesterday, it took in the end one pajero pulling a landrover defender pulling a zetor tractor pulling the artic with about 10 tons on board being pushed by a new holland tractor. About 2 hours to get 2 miles to the main road.

 

Makes me wish I'd bought a 432 instead of the saracen. However, thought I'd check on what the pulling capacity of the saracen is. Anyone got any experience? The roads are like glaciers here, a good two inchs of compacted ice all the way, any slope and the lorries slide into the ditch.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[Bazz]

Thing to remember about Saracan is that it has a fluid flywheel which if I remember isn't to good in the towing field. I know we used to restrict towing to emergency recovery/towing only on our fluid flywheel vehs. That is why kinetic towropes are used, so the rope does the strain of the recovery not the veh.

[Markheliops]

I don't think you will get much joy with bar grips on the ice - may as well use slicks.

[haybaggerman]

Hmmmm, as I thought, but thankyou for the confirmation.

 

Maybe a fv432 next year then, might be able to put it against tax as a towing vehicle, anything is possible, as long as I keep my customers that is.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[andym]

That raises a question that I was going to ask anyway. Just how good (or otherwise) is a tracked vehicle on ice and snow - better or worse than a 4x4? Logic suggests that on sheet ice it would just slide around, but for patchy coverage there should be some grip somewhere along the track length provided you can keep it pointed in the right direction. I'd appreciate advice from anyone who's actually tried it!

 

Andy

[recymech66]

That raises a question that I was going to ask anyway. Just how good (or otherwise) is a tracked vehicle on ice and snow - better or worse than a 4x4? Logic suggests that on sheet ice it would just slide around, but for patchy coverage there should be some grip somewhere along the track length provided you can keep it pointed in the right direction. I'd appreciate advice from anyone who's actually tried it!

 

Andy

 

I've done quite a few winter tours Bosnia, Kosovo etc were I've carried out quite a lot of towing of tracked vehicles using anything from CVRT Samson, Warrior and Crarrv. Towing up inclines with tracked vehicles on sheet ice can be a nightmare with the tracks spinning and losing traction, many a time I've had to disconnect then winch the towed vehicle up a hill then reconnect and attempt to pull away.

 

Towing downhill can be very hazardous if you lose traction, you just end up being a very heavy sledge with no control over your vehicle.

 

Towing cars out would be no problem you could do that on tickover, however heavier vehicles, trucks etc will be a problem, not all the time but if the conditions are bad enough well!!

 

My choice would be a heavy wheeled vehicle with a set of snow chains, now that vehicle will go anywere in the snow and ice.

 

 

Edited to add: (Video borrowed from the Snow thread) if this can happen to cars then imagine what 14 Tonne of 432 would be like in the same situation

 

 

" Edited December 22, 2010 by recymech66

[andym]

Thanks for that, and the video is brilliant. It's amazing to see that people still think that applying more revs will solve the problem!

 

Andy

[rbrtcrowther]

To be honest if i had just slid down that hill in my pride and joy and slamed into a pole i would probably floor it in anger too:-)

[haybaggerman]

Yes, good video, ironically that just happened to me in my pajero. Nearly got to the top of the hill, then started losing traction, slowed to a stop, then started sliding back. Tried to steer straight down the hill to slow on the other side, got a long way seeing as it is a narrow road, was picking up speed and it was pitch black, but finally ended up stuck sideways, touching both hedges. The only damage is a dented plastic corner bumper that I think will pop back out.

 

Quite exciting though. My mate pulled me out in his newly restored massey (on which he had done the same thing on the same hill a couple of hours earlier)

 

Glad I wasn't in the sarry or ferret.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[AndyFowler]

Would the budget stretch to one of these impressive toys Paul ?

[Degsy]

I could have done with that a few times:D

[oily]

you could probably tow a TRAILER weighing 2tons MAX, with a Saracen, more than that and you could risk overheating the flywheel...:-|

[cosrec]

Basically once snow has turned into packed ice forget it steel or rubber aint going to grip if the guys who are willing to spend 2 hours pushing and shoving and towing with tractors to get a truck out had spent 15 min with a bucket on clearing road when it was soft snow you would have had no problems. I know this will rub people up the wrong way but i think if every body did their little bit when we have a bit of bad weather instead of standing back and saying the councils arnt doing their job life would be a lot easier. Taking it back to basics hows about if every body was responsible for any footpaths boardering thier property and any part of the road they parked their car on the road on estates say how much easier would it be one and all leaving councils to concentrate on the main routes

[haybaggerman]

Basically once snow has turned into packed ice forget it steel or rubber aint going to grip if the guys who are willing to spend 2 hours pushing and shoving and towing with tractors to get a truck out had spent 15 min with a bucket on clearing road when it was soft snow you would have had no problems. I know this will rub people up the wrong way but i think if every body did their little bit when we have a bit of bad weather instead of standing back and saying the councils arnt doing their job life would be a lot easier. Taking it back to basics hows about if every body was responsible for any footpaths boardering thier property and any part of the road they parked their car on the road on estates say how much easier would it be one and all leaving councils to concentrate on the main routes

 

I take your point, but we are talking about 2 miles of road here, plus we havn't had it like this before, prolonged cold weather re freezing melting snow into hard packed ice lasting so many days. Maybe a crystal ball would be useful as every other year we havn't had a problem.

[mash]

Basically once snow has turned into packed ice forget it steel or rubber aint going to grip if the guys who are willing to spend 2 hours pushing and shoving and towing with tractors to get a truck out had spent 15 min with a bucket on clearing road when it was soft snow you would have had no problems. I know this will rub people up the wrong way but i think if every body did their little bit when we have a bit of bad weather instead of standing back and saying the councils arnt doing their job life would be a lot easier. Taking it back to basics hows about if every body was responsible for any footpaths boardering thier property and any part of the road they parked their car on the road on estates say how much easier would it be one and all leaving councils to concentrate on the main routes

 

In Germany it is law to clear the footpath in front of your house, we have to spend a lot of time clearing all pathways around our hangers, if we didn't and a german civi were to fall over, we would get a hefty fine and bill for his injuries. how hard would it be to have this law instated in Britain, at least it would help the less abled to get around easier.

[recymech66]

Basically once snow has turned into packed ice forget it steel or rubber aint going to grip if the guys who are willing to spend 2 hours pushing and shoving and towing with tractors to get a truck out had spent 15 min with a bucket on clearing road when it was soft snow you would have had no problems. I know this will rub people up the wrong way but i think if every body did their little bit when we have a bit of bad weather instead of standing back and saying the councils arnt doing their job life would be a lot easier. Taking it back to basics hows about if every body was responsible for any footpaths boardering thier property and any part of the road they parked their car on the road on estates say how much easier would it be one and all leaving councils to concentrate on the main routes

 

Totally agree, here in Germany it's the law you have to clear snow from all paths, access roads adjoining your property as soon as reasonably possible, if anybody slips and injures themselves due to somebody not clearing the snow then the occupant will be liable.

 

Just another reason to add to my earlier post about winter tyres how the snow and bad weather doesn't stop everyday life from happening in Germany.

 

To many people in UK are content with just sitting back and leaving it up to somebody else and when it doesn't happen they blame everybody else.

 

It's idle attitudes like this why our country is in the state it is.

[haybaggerman]

Clearing paths and private drives is one thing but clearing miles of public roads is something else I would say

[recymech66]

Clearing paths and private drives is one thing but clearing miles of public roads is something else I would say

 

As Cosrec said if people were made to be responsible for their own areas outside their homes and places of work then the councils could be left to get on with "miles of public roads" it's not rocket science just a little common sense, people need to help themselves and each other, community spirit and all that good stuff.

[Richard Farrant]

As Cosrec said if people were made to be responsible for their own areas outside their homes and places of work then the councils could be left to get on with "miles of public roads" it's not rocket science just a little common sense, people need to help themselves and each other, community spirit and all that good stuff.

 

That is a good idea, but........last year councils were warning people not to clear roads and paths in front of their properties because they would be liable for any injuries or accidents. We always used to do this outside home.

 

I recently heard that farmers who wanted to sub-contract to County Councils to snow plough, had to have a massive liability insurance, use white diesel and other stipulations before they could get a contract. Perhaps it is the authorites who should sort themselves out firstly.

[recymech66]

That is a good idea, but........last year councils were warning people not to clear roads and paths in front of their properties because they would be liable for any injuries or accidents. We always used to do this outside home.

 

I recently heard that farmers who wanted to sub-contract to County Councils to snow plough, had to have a massive liability insurance, use white diesel and other stipulations before they could get a contract. Perhaps it is the authorites who should sort themselves out firstly.

 

Proves my point splendidly how our little Island has it's priorities all wrong, it's all about money and not about people helping themselves and each other.

[Richard Farrant]

Proves my point splendidly how our little Island has it's priorities all wrong, it's all about money and not about people helping themselves and each other.

 

Perhaps after this winter, the point may be made to councils and others. We know they are doing there best, despite all those knocking them, they are out there working to keep the roads clear, but help from the community would ease the situation.

 

As for saying "other countries cope better than us", not so sure after seeing news bulletins from USA and talking to lorry drivers who work right across Europe.

[recymech66]

Perhaps after this winter, the point may be made to councils and others. We know they are doing there best, despite all those knocking them, they are out there working to keep the roads clear, but help from the community would ease the situation.

 

As for saying "other countries cope better than us", not so sure after seeing news bulletins from USA and talking to lorry drivers who work right across Europe.

 

Yes I have to agree, not all countries fair better than the UK far from it, I stayed over here as usual this year but lots of friends who have made the Xmas journey back to the UK have said how bad it was driving through Holland, Belgium normally a 5 to 6 hour drive from here to Calais was taking people in excess of 10 to 12 hours because of the conditions. You only have to see the video's (on here and youtube) of how bad conditions are in the US, I'm not saying Germany is perfect and travelling times are worse but the point is the traffic is still moving.

 

I've just been into the town here and seen a load of farmers in tractors with buckets fitted digging out entrances to shops, car parks and business's, not sure of the legalities/liabilities if any but just an example of the community spirit displayed. Maybe we could learn a thing or two.

[Richard Farrant]

Yes I have to agree, not all countries fair better than the UK far from it, I stayed over here as usual this year but lots of friends who have made the Xmas journey back to the UK have said how bad it was driving through Holland, Belgium normally a 5 to 6 hour drive from here to Calais was taking people in excess of 10 to 12 hours because of the conditions. You only have to see the video's (on here and youtube) of how bad conditions are in the US, I'm not saying Germany is perfect and travelling times are worse but the point is the traffic is still moving.

 

.

 

A friend who drives lorries has been struggling to get back from Czech this week loaded with steel at 44 tons, he phoned yesterday from near Brussels saying how bad it is over there, he was able to get up hills better than some trucks due to his weight, and that on the motorways it was down to one lane through Germany, so slow going.

[schliesser92]

strangely enough, Saracens were used to tow Green Archer and the silenced generators within

towed field regiments, RA. 18 Feld Regt, in Munsterlager in the mid 1960s,had a radar troop with four Saracens, 2 Green Archers and 2 genes

[Richard Farrant]

strangely enough, Saracens were used to tow Green Archer and the silenced generators within

towed field regiments, RA. 18 Feld Regt, in Munsterlager in the mid 1960s,had a radar troop with four Saracens, 2 Green Archers and 2 genes

 

The Saracen could also tow a Barmine minelayer, which would need some effort to draw through the ground.

[recymech66]

A friend who drives lorries has been struggling to get back from Czech this week loaded with steel at 44 tons, he phoned yesterday from near Brussels saying how bad it is over there, he was able to get up hills better than some trucks due to his weight, and that on the motorways it was down to one lane through Germany, so slow going.

 

I've spent quite a bit of time on the A7 which runs from Hamburg all the way down to Bavaria recently, yes when the snows falling it can get down to 1 lane traffic naturally but once it's stopped the snow plows/gritters usually get the 2nd/3rd lane open, but it's been a while since I've seen traffic at a standstill, I think the key word here is slow going but moving;)