Laying a concrete drive?

[rambo1969]

The drive where I live is stone/shingle, and it's a nightmare for working on the landy.

It has hard packed dirt under stone /shingle.

What I was thinking of doing is digging a hole 6 inches deep by 12 ft long and 8ft wide and concreteing it.

How much concrete do you think i'll need and will it be deep enough to support the wieght of a 110 landy?

[honeileen]

You need 1.3 cubic mtr! sorry no inches here dont forget

to reinforce it and its ok for a landy.

 

Christian

[steveo578]

approx 1.5 cu m of concrete mix -not a mortar mix -you can get it ready mixed or by one of the batch mixers who mix it for you on site or if you have access to a mixer -or hire one the mix is-

 

9 bags (@25kg) of cement and 0.7cu m of sharp sand and 0.8cu m course argregate or 1.5 cu m of combined agregate (best option- less waste) normaly sand and agregate comes in those large bags (0.9cu m) loaded off hi-ab equiped trucks -you will also need some weld rebar mesh with a mesh size of about 6-8mm bar thickness and 20cm sq. approx 9 sq m. Remember the edges need to be thicker, - dig out to the 150mm depth and then a extra 150mm by 100mm deep around the edge -esp the driving on edge.

 

Steve

Edited November 2, 2010 by steveo578
was correct before correction

[N.O.S.]

The small mix suppliers will put fibre reinforcing (chopped glass fibre) into the mix too at nominal extra cost - well worth it!

 

Depending on stability of ground I might use rebar as well - or the odd scrap landrover axle etc etc

[snowtracdave]

As already calculated for you it's just on 1.3 cubic metres .

 

If you've never laid concrete before and you're not particularly a) masochistic or b) a glutton for punishment go for one of the on site mixing franchises - Mixamate is a pretty well known one and they now have some lorries which come with their own small dumper so you don't even have to barrow your own stuff . There's plenty of others like Captain Concrete , Rightmix . Just have a look in the Yellow Pages . The beauty of these type of machines is that they will make exactly the quantity you need and you don't end up running round for more ballast if you run out or desperately trying to find somewhere to loose excess stuff.

 

If you're laying readymix 6" (150mm) thick I don't think you really need to worrry too much about reinforcing unless you think it's likely that in the future you're going to have something significantly heavier parked up there .

 

Good luck and the best part is when you've finished and you can go and have a beer and a little lay down !

[steveo578]

I would consider making 2 x 3.6m x 200mm deep strips each about 600mm wide at an average trackwidth and infill between with paving slabs- why - oil spillage -it alot easier to replace a damaged paving slab than try to clean or replace disfigured concrete.

 

Steve

[Meteor mark 4B]

I've got two concrete strips with loose threequarter chippings in between. Any leaks etc you merely rake over the chippings. HOWEVER, just don't drop any nuts, split pins or screws, they will be a b****r to find!!

[mike65]

I get home from work and go on HMVF to forget about my day job.

What happens somebody asks a question about a concrete driveway.

Oh well never mind atleast this is a question I know I can answer.:yay:

So here we go with no liability but it will work.

 

First things first.

You do not need edge thickenings. You can get away quite happily with a 150mm (6") slab.

 

You heed to excavate to approx. 20mm deeper than the proposed slab.

This gices you a formation. For the proposed loading (Land Rover) you will not need a sub-base.

Compact the sub-base using a whacker plate (from plant hire). For those who do not know it is a steel plate with a petrol engine that viprates and compacts the ground slightly.

This needs to be levelled with a sand blinding layer.

Shutter the edge of the arear with timber to provide a straight edge. If you want to be flash you can install kerbs. This also helps you get a level finish.

On this you lay a sheet of 1000g (minimum) polythene and up the sides. Stops bonding and moisture being sucked out of the concrete.

 

If you want to give it extra strength throw in some mesh. You maybe able to scrounge some from a building site They tgrow buts bigger than this away.

 

Get some concrete and pour it in making sure you have no voids, especially if reinforced with mesh. You can rent a vibrator or just give it a good poking with a stick. Helps to spread and level it aswell.

 

Tamp finish with timber, straight piece long enougth to reach both edge boards. Ideally a steel trowelled margin to preimeter should be provided, but can be omitted.

 

Do not traffic for 14 days and protect from main and frost.

 

Would recommend getting concrete from ready mix supplier

You need a C35 mix. More detail on sketch.

You need to concrete it in one hit to avoid problems.

 

Attached is a quick sketch for you.

 

Hopefully thats the day job over again.:-D

 

Mike

concrete drive,.pdf

[fv1609]

What I was thinking of doing is digging a hole 6 inches deep by 12 ft long and 8ft wide and concreteing it.

 

So that would be 96 sq ft = 8.9 sq m

I hate to say this but as its over 5 sq m looks like you might need planning permission:argh:

 

 

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/pavingfrontgarden/

[Marmite!!]

So that would be 96 sq ft = 8.9 sq m

I hate to say this but as its over 5 sq m looks like you might need planning permission:argh:

 

 

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/pavingfrontgarden/

Only if he has no where for run off water..

If the surface to be covered is more than five square metres planning permission will be needed for laying traditional, impermeable driveways that do not provide for the water to run to a permeable area.

 

[antarmike]

Just finished laying 9+ cubic metres in what was the Explorers shed. My wife is converting the shed to a wood turning workshop, and she and I mixed the whole lot by hand ( well a Belle mixer).

 

 

We halved the cost of ready mixed and we are a lot fitter having done it. It really isn't that big a deal mixing concrete, if you have the time you can save a lot of money.

 

Floor 25' wide x 40' long tapering to 30' average 5" thickness.

Edited November 2, 2010 by antarmike

[steveo578]

fv1609

I hate to say this but as its over 5 sq m looks like you might need planning permission

 

Rambo 1969 drive is already what sounds like a hardcore material therefore it not the same as "concreting over the garden" however run off for anything involving motor vehicles could cause the rain water run off to be contaminated by volitiles (probably unlikely but possible) so could be a concern as could be local controls for anti-flooding and local covenants on parking up anything other than a car on the drive etc.

 

So it's one of those things that consultation with building control might be advisable -building inspectors are generally much nicer people than environmental or planning officers :eek:

[steveo578]

antarmike

Just finished laying 9+ cubic metres in what was the Explorers shed. My wife is converting the shed to a wood turning workshop, and she and I mixed the whole lot by hand ( well a Belle mixer)

).

 

Yes and it keeps you fit and as long as the gauging is consistant their shouldn't be a problem -unlike some batches that get delivered comercially:-( going off -sometimes over wet and dubious batch control.:nut:

[Rover8FFR]

I have particular experience of this being a humble architect as PPG 25 is onerous! I have done slabs with a perculated medium adjacent (harcore/ gravel) adjacent where the planner has no issue and where other planners have had an issue with drainage being required so local planning authority would advise as each application is reviewed on it's own merits, which is a government dictate.

 

However this is where planning policy gets contraversial.

 

If it is your driveway and you want to change it then you can do whatever you want with surface finish under permitted development. Garage and carports have to meet certain criteria so as not to be treated as extensions due to location and height etc!

 

A concrete drive does not require planning for a private residence, as it is residential and low impact! Putting this into perspective a block paving drive has a similar effect to attenuation (rain water run off delay to drainage) as a concrete driveway against a lawned garden and as a result you don't need planning to do a block paved front garden.

 

Similarly you don't need a planning application to paint your windows and gutters any mad colour you want.....UNLESS YOU LIVE IN A CONSERVATION AREA! which affects the envelope of buildings!!!! Before you all paint your hoses drab olive all over!!!!! if in conservation area beware!!!

 

Regards

 

Wayne

 

Associate Director

Darnton EGS Ltd

Architects and much more

www.darntonegs.com

 

Any further advice then PM me!

[Rover8FFR]

I get home from work and go on HMVF to forget about my day job.

What happens somebody asks a question about a concrete driveway.

Oh well never mind atleast this is a question I know I can answer.:yay:

So here we go with no liability but it will work.

 

First things first.

You do not need edge thickenings. You can get away quite happily with a 150mm (6") slab.

 

You heed to excavate to approx. 20mm deeper than the proposed slab.

This gices you a formation. For the proposed loading (Land Rover) you will not need a sub-base.

Compact the sub-base using a whacker plate (from plant hire). For those who do not know it is a steel plate with a petrol engine that viprates and compacts the ground slightly.

This needs to be levelled with a sand blinding layer.

Shutter the edge of the arear with timber to provide a straight edge. If you want to be flash you can install kerbs. This also helps you get a level finish.

On this you lay a sheet of 1000g (minimum) polythene and up the sides. Stops bonding and moisture being sucked out of the concrete.

 

If you want to give it extra strength throw in some mesh. You maybe able to scrounge some from a building site They tgrow buts bigger than this away.

 

Get some concrete and pour it in making sure you have no voids, especially if reinforced with mesh. You can rent a vibrator or just give it a good poking with a stick. Helps to spread and level it aswell.

 

Tamp finish with timber, straight piece long enougth to reach both edge boards. Ideally a steel trowelled margin to preimeter should be provided, but can be omitted.

 

Do not traffic for 14 days and protect from main and frost.

 

Would recommend getting concrete from ready mix supplier

You need a C35 mix. More detail on sketch.

You need to concrete it in one hit to avoid problems.

 

Attached is a quick sketch for you.

 

Hopefully thats the day job over again.:-D

 

Mike

 

Dont forget the visqueen or similar gauge damp proof membrane as this prevents the water and cement particals draining into the ground therefore giving you a concrete slab made more of sand and stone??????????Deemed to fail.

 

The strength is the cement, but ultimately with the other agregates(materials)....don't lose it and the membrane brought up and around the slab acts as a liner and stops the best bits draining away.

 

If you want a robust slab that won't sink then the slab must go on a well consolidated blinded hardcore base. Reason being that if a site strip 300mm/ 12" is not removed then a slab under load would sink slowly! due to area of compressible top soil still in-situ!

 

Minimum site strip is 350mm to allow for 200mm hardcore then 150mm slab on a semi domestic building as a rule to overcome grass/ vegetation and topsoil!

 

It is worth pointing out that whilst an average the specifics of a design are based upon the CBR (Californian Bearing Ratio) rating for the soil that affect the sub-base and slab as to how thick and how strong!!!

[mike65]

Dont forget the visqueen or similar gauge damp proof membrane as this prevents the water and cement particals draining into the ground therefore giving you a concrete slab made more of sand and stone??????????Deemed to fail.

 

The strength is the cement, but ultimately with the other agregates(materials)....don't lose it and the membrane brought up and around the slab acts as a liner and stops the best bits draining away.

 

If you want a robust slab that won't sink then the slab must go on a well consolidated blinded hardcore base. Reason being that if a site strip 300mm/ 12" is not removed then a slab under load would sink slowly! due to area of compressible top soil still in-situ!

 

Minimum site strip is 350mm to allow for 200mm hardcore then 150mm slab on a semi domestic building as a rule to overcome grass/ vegetation and topsoil!

 

It is worth pointing out that whilst an average the specifics of a design are based upon the CBR (Californian Bearing Ratio) rating for the soil that affect the sub-base and slab as to how thick and how strong!!!

 

As a humble civil engineer it is nice to come across a humble architect who does not talk a load of rubbish when it comes to concrete slabs and actually knows what a CBR is.

 

Yes you ideally would have about 150 to 200mm of hardcore beneath a concrete hardstanding. However using Road Note 29 and a good CBR you do not need anything. Bearing in mind all guidance is based upon HGV traffic as cars and light vehicles are deemed to have no effect .

If the ground compacts under the whacker plate you should have a bearing pressure suitable for a concrete slab to park a car on. I am assuming the existing granular parking has not rutted or anything similar. A concrete slab acts as a raft and spreads the load (mesh reinf helps this). Settlement on an internal slab can be a problems. Settlement of an external parking spot is normally not an issue as in most cases.

A quick calc for 1% CBR at slab underside and 0.1 msa over its life gives a C35 concrete slab thickness of 125mm with no mesh and 150mm is the minimum thickness of concrete for an external slab

 

Totally agree about PPG25 as well. Being as this is just a small area PPG25 does not really come into play.

 

Pollution from oil etc should also not be a problem. The Environment Agency cover this under PPG3 Pollution Prevention Guidelines. So no oil seperator is required as this falls well below the threshold.

 

Providing a granular margin or centre strip (extra working space) will provide a drainage and comply with the Planning requirement.

The gravel strip will also act as pollution control as any oil will sit in this and degrade by natural bacterial means. This is the same way that porous block paving deals with oil.

 

Normal block paving is classed as impermeable and you need special blocks with hole or large stone filled joints and a special graded stone sub-base. These types of drive do not work out cheap.

 

Think the Planning criteria is a bit vague and you can get away with building a porous gravel drive on a 1:10 slope without needing permission. I am sure you can all guess where the gravel ends up after the first heavy rain storm.

 

Now back to doing this for money.

Mike

[fv1609]

Only if he has no where for run off water..

 

Yes I know, which is why I posted

you might need planning permission

 

 

Worth having a read of this. If only to be aware of the warning at the end of the book :nut:

 

 

[fesm_ndt]

so is it common practice to spill your beer and lick it back off the concrete?

 

I been drunk on the odd occaision and not done that

 

Tiles perhaps

[fesm_ndt]

Now back to doing this for money.

Mike

 

Curious what do you specialise in? I inspect petro chem stuff and we get some weird civil issues from time to time.

[mike65]

Curious what do you specialise in? I inspect petro chem stuff and we get some weird civil issues from time to time.

 

Specialise, an iteresting concept.

Work for a company that does a bit of everything, mainly in the private sector.

Housing, commercial, industrial, we will try anything (especially at the moment)

Hover would say I spend the majority working on industrial/commercial drainage and hardstandings.

 

Mike

[antarmike]

Specialise, an iteresting concept.

Work for a company that does a bit of everything, mainly in the private sector.

Housing, commercial, industrial, we will try anything (especially at the moment)

Hover would say I spend the majority working on industrial/commercial drainage and hardstandings.

 

Mike

 

As the packaging of the Landy seat runners you just sent me prooves!

[fesm_ndt]

we will try anything (especially at the moment)

 

Mike

 

I will have to remember that as with the inspection side we find a lot of interesting things and sometimes we need civils input. Next job is a tank job buried inside a hill, concrete reinforced.

[rambo1969]

Cheers chaps!

Gonna get a few of the boys round to help dig the hole and cook 'em sunday dinner.

[snowtracdave]

Gosh....I'm only a humble country builder.....what illustrious company we all share .

[Rover8FFR]

As a humble civil engineer it is nice to come across a humble architect who does not talk a load of rubbish when it comes to concrete slabs and actually knows what a CBR is.

 

Yes you ideally would have about 150 to 200mm of hardcore beneath a concrete hardstanding. However using Road Note 29 and a good CBR you do not need anything. Bearing in mind all guidance is based upon HGV traffic as cars and light vehicles are deemed to have no effect .

If the ground compacts under the whacker plate you should have a bearing pressure suitable for a concrete slab to park a car on. I am assuming the existing granular parking has not rutted or anything similar. A concrete slab acts as a raft and spreads the load (mesh reinf helps this). Settlement on an internal slab can be a problems. Settlement of an external parking spot is normally not an issue as in most cases.

A quick calc for 1% CBR at slab underside and 0.1 msa over its life gives a C35 concrete slab thickness of 125mm with no mesh and 150mm is the minimum thickness of concrete for an external slab

 

Totally agree about PPG25 as well. Being as this is just a small area PPG25 does not really come into play.

 

Pollution from oil etc should also not be a problem. The Environment Agency cover this under PPG3 Pollution Prevention Guidelines. So no oil seperator is required as this falls well below the threshold.

 

Providing a granular margin or centre strip (extra working space) will provide a drainage and comply with the Planning requirement.

The gravel strip will also act as pollution control as any oil will sit in this and degrade by natural bacterial means. This is the same way that porous block paving deals with oil.

 

Normal block paving is classed as impermeable and you need special blocks with hole or large stone filled joints and a special graded stone sub-base. These types of drive do not work out cheap.

 

Think the Planning criteria is a bit vague and you can get away with building a porous gravel drive on a 1:10 slope without needing permission. I am sure you can all guess where the gravel ends up after the first heavy rain storm.

 

Now back to doing this for money.

Mike

 

You get paid!!!!! I always receive promises