mcspool Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 (edited) Ref. http://hmvf.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=401:robin-hood-wwii-tank-restored-in-time-for-anniversary-&catid=13:news-headlines&Itemid=2 I understand it is easy to copy verbatim news items from other sources, but next time please check your sources. This BBC news item is complete nonsense, as far as the historical facts go. Of course it is wonderful this Grizzly Cruiser Tank was restored by apprentices and the vets love it, but it is not "a tank which fought with Nottinghamshire's Sherwood Rangers". Also this is not true: "The Sherwood Rangers' tank survived, however, and 25 years ago it was donated to the Dutch National Liberation". It is not a Sherman but a Grizzly Cruiser Tank, although I can get by that omission. The fact however is that this Grizzly was exchanged for a Ram Cruiser Tank which was donated by the Royal Netherlands Army to the National Liberation Museum at Nijmegen. A British unit offered to repaint it in their barracks in Germany. The Ram was then swapped by the Bovington Tank Museum for a "proper Sherman" as Ram tanks were not used during WW2. (Note: this type of tank, the Grizzly, was not used operationally during WW2, whereas the Ram was, although not as a gun tank.). Anyway, the museum was happy with the swap and must be happy now with it being restored externally (note the interior was gutted). Any media could write it was restored to resemble "Robin Hood, a tank which fought with Nottinghamshire's Sherwood Rangers". But it is not the very same Sherman tank. Sorry for my rant (I am a blunt Dutchman), but too many WW2 relics are presented as the real thing! Hope this sets things straight, Hanno Edited September 17, 2010 by mcspool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex van de Wetering Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 My thoughts exactly! A Grizzly as a 1944 vet? I didn't know it was swapped for a RAM though; interesting to read the history. Anyway....at least this "Sherman" came back after a trip abroad....I guess the Italian weather is better that the rain in the UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 Hanno I'm sure that tank got into a tardis and went back to Portugal in 1944 and then made its way to occupied Netherlands. it's the only rational explaination In reality it would probably be in service at Borden at that time- as you are aware there are photos released on or about D.day showing some of the earlier Grizzlies in training. The BBC is never wrong -Yesterday one of their news 24 reporters squeeked excitedly that Saint Benedict's plane has just landed- talk about a second coming:nut: Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean N Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 ...as Ram tanks were not used during WW2. (Note: this type of tank ... was not used operationally during WW2, whereas the Ram was...) Hanno, a digression, but I don't understand this bit - you appear to be saying the Ram wasn't used in WW2 and then that it was? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 i think he meant the ram gun tank wasn't used but the ram kangaroo (early apc) was, it was basically a ram with the turret removed so infantry could fit inside. eddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 I'm also confused about the comments regarding people coming over to "drive it" if the interior is gutted? I'm assuming it's no longer mobile? Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 andym I'm assuming it's no longer mobile? the Grossbeek exhibit Grizzly No18 was one of the Grizzlies bought by the British MOD for targeting in 1984 they were the junk end of batches of Grizzlies brought in from Portugal from 1982 by a Man called Ian McGregor. !0 remained unsold and were gutted of useful components, some lost seats- pedals steering levers, even engines and gun mounts, but many were sent for targeting almost complete- about 5 or 6 were rescued prior to being targeted- AFAIK only those allocated to Otterburn and Warcop actually got shot at -even the Otterburn pair were eventually recovered. So basically -a not very well tank when swapped for the Dutch Ram tank but relatively easy to refurbish -compared to a range wreck:shocked: Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 (edited) eddy8men i think he meant the ram gun tank wasn't used but the ram kangaroo (early apc) was, it was basically a ram with the turret removed so infantry could fit inside. Hi Eddy/ Sean N Both you and Sean N will be interested to know that in addition to turretless APC (Kangaroo) Rams were also used as GPO Gun Position Officer tanks -gunless but turreted tanks with additional observation equipment and map tables inside. These were also used as OP-RA . It is possible but as yet no definative proof that some armed Rams were used as FOO tanks (Forward Observation Officers tanks) during the last months of the war as 75mm Armed Shermans were becoming too scarce to waste as OPs. Other turretless Rams were used as Wallabies -armoured ammunition carriers and towing vehicles for 17pdr a/t guns. The most agressive use of Rams were those used by the Canadians in February 1945 which mounted the flame thrower similar to that fitted to Wasp carriers, it had the turret ring plated over and some had a Ram hull MG turret mounted as a commanders cupola- other had a fabricated turret for the flame thrower -but they may have been retained for training only. There were also alot of experimental vehicles- Porpoise a Ram BARV, a Ram conger mine clearing tank, a Mk2 ARV similarly build to the experimental Sherman ARV Mk2 and were meant for RA use in support of Sextons but it is unlikely it ever happened. They were many Mk1 Rams converted to ARV Mk1 configuration but it is debatable whether any saw service- although a couple were transfered to the Netherlands after WW2 ended. The Mk2 Rams also gave good service as training vehicles for Canadian forces in Canada Britain, most Mk1 Rams came to Britain with Canadian cruiser tank regiments and were used in training. The British may have used some Rams for training late in WW2 due to tank shortages- this needs to be confirmed. Two surviving Rams were converted to Evasive Target Tanks -but it is unclear who (probably British) and when it was done. Steve Edited September 17, 2010 by steveo578 addition training tanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joris Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 (edited) Blimey there really is a lot of knowledge on our forum! And always nice to see a front page story to get so much attention! Edit: I've added a note and a link to this thread to the article (and fixed the formatting). Edited September 18, 2010 by Joris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 (edited) Regarding Robin Hood -i'm fairly sure the Sherwood Rangers didn't have cast hull Shermans during the September 1944 period -they had welded hull tanks probably Sherman III (for example with cenus No. T14****) I would think that the use of Sherman II tanks is due to some-one locating a photo of tanks serving in the North African campaign. Steve Edited September 18, 2010 by steveo578 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcspool Posted September 18, 2010 Author Share Posted September 18, 2010 Hanno, a digression, but I don't understand this bit - you appear to be saying the Ram wasn't used in WW2 and then that it was? Sean, I should have put the quotes differently, like so: The Ram was then swapped by the Bovington Tank Museum for a "proper Sherman as Ram tanks were not used during WW2". In other words, it was the reasoning used to trade the Ram for a "Sherman". Steve has provided a list of Ram types used during WW2. Hanno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David I Posted September 26, 2010 Share Posted September 26, 2010 Regarding Robin Hood -i'm fairly sure the Sherwood Rangers didn't have cast hull Shermans during the September 1944 period -they had welded hull tanks probably Sherman III (for example with cenus No. T14****) I would think that the use of Sherman II tanks is due to some-one locating a photo of tanks serving in the North African campaign. I remember reading about this elsewhere a few years ago. The Grizzly in the Land Warfare Hall at Duxford (Akilla) is also in Sherwood Rangers markings, but is not actually represntitive of the type used by 8th Armoured Brigade. Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted September 26, 2010 Share Posted September 26, 2010 Quite a famous picture of the Sherwood Rangers tank Akilla at Normandy pretty certain its a Mk3. In the Desert campaign the Shermans would be mostly Mk2 so vaguely reminisant of the "Robin Hood" or IWM Duxford Grizzly type -early hull type without applique would be close to early M4A1s but the bogies turret and mantlet are not correct they need to be an earlier type. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted September 26, 2010 Share Posted September 26, 2010 Hi guys, I am am idiot regarding tanks but I posted this pic in the Saracen build-up thread of my dad when he was in the army. The tanks seem similar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted September 26, 2010 Share Posted September 26, 2010 Hi montie Yes it's another Sherman -this time a Sherman Mk1c which is armed with the high powered 17pdr gun and ran on a radial gasoline engine the one in the background is a Sherman Mk2A -a 76mm gun variant again with a radial engine- was this photo taken in Italy by chance? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted September 26, 2010 Share Posted September 26, 2010 Hi montie Yes it's another Sherman -this time a Sherman Mk1c which is armed with the high powered 17pdr gun and ran on a radial gasoline engine the one in the background is a Sherman Mk2A -a 76mm gun variant again with a radial engine- was this photo taken in Italy by chance? Steve Steve, it must have been in South Africa at the time, my dad never was outside of South Africa and this was taken during his stint in the army. http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?16817-Saracen-Build-up/page28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted September 26, 2010 Share Posted September 26, 2010 Thanks for that Montie, just curious as 17pdr and 76mm were used by the units of the 6th South African Armoured Division in Italy. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcspool Posted October 18, 2010 Author Share Posted October 18, 2010 The Ram was then swapped by the Bovington Tank Museum for a "proper Sherman" From the Tank Museum's website: The tank was originally acquired in the Netherlands by Sherwood Rangers Association for display in Nijmegen, and 17th/21st Lancers had undertaken to restore it for plinthing. A Sherman, however, was felt to be more suitable, so the Tank Museum acquired a plinthed M4A1 of Royal Scots Dragoon Guards from the School of Infantry at Warminster. It was shipped to 17th/21st Lancers, and will be replaced at Warminster by a Centurion, suitable for plinthing, from Sutton Coldfield. The Ram was shipped to Marchwood from Antwerp on RFA Sir Lancelot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aukedijk Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Hello guys, I came across this thread and would like to show you a picture of British Sherman I's in Nijmegen in probably 1944. They could be Guards or 8th Arm. Brgde. Although there were only a few, they were still used in around September 1944 (or later). Auke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Nice photo, most of the tanks are Sherman 2 (M4A1) but without any visible Tac markings or a definate place and time it is difficult to tell which regiment or brigade it is- considering the crews seem to have distinctly black berrets and as 4AB had numbers of Sherman 2s I would lean to 44btn RTR. The Guard AD were largely equipped with Sherman V and VC with a few IC coming in as replacements later on. 8AB was largely a Sherman 3 equiped unit with VC as support, but some Sherman 2 DD were used by 4/7DG on D.Day but not standard Sherman 2s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aukedijk Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Steve, yes.. off course. Sherman II's is what they are. Regards, Auke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Yup, that's a lovely photo, goes to backup the suggestion / fact that we kept like Shermans together for parts, service and operational reasons, not a Diesel Sherman III or a Multibank Sherman V in site! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 Except of course where Sherman III regiments had to use Sherman IC or VC! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 Yup, I think we went through that 'glitch' before..... which brings me nicely to a question: when can we expect a running 1c or Vc to appear in England? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maurice Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 I hope to get my IC ready in about 1 1/2 year , still a lot of small interior bits wich have to be finished , but I am getting there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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