theredkite Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 At the weekend I took the Scorp for a short "spin", almost literally, there was much less control, it seemed that although there was no real problem with snow, despite the famous "lower ground pressure than a ballet dancer" stat, the tracks sunk through the snow and struggled on the ice underneath. It really didn't want to turn. Has anyone else tried to enjoy the current weather in their heavy metal? And maybe there are people on the forum who experienced the joys of CVRTs in Bosnia, or indeed any armour anywhere wintry?!? Cheers and happy snowballing, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I have had a similar experience on wet grass (going down hill) in a Spartan. It wouldn't turn at all. Apparently one track had all but stopped (eyewitness account) but I continued going straight! Someone told me that they used studded tracks on CVRT in Norway, but i don't know how true this is. Vince Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Here are pictures of two of ours in the snow. The ice underneath if that is what you have making any operation very interesting. If you play in the snow the result is very clean track as any dry mud falls off and is replaced by snow which melts when you bring the vehicle back inside. What else do you want to know? R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I've had that in the Sherman on wet, muddy grass as anyone at Route to Victory last year can confirm! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodge Deep Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 You said that was the excess payload in the turret... I knew it was a lie... I'll take responsability for the burned out clutch but... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodge Deep Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I tried (un sucessfully) to find that bit of film of a sherman in the Ardennes sliding slowly out of control on an icy cobbled road during the war... you wouldn't imagine anything that bit losing traction but there y'go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theredkite Posted January 7, 2010 Author Share Posted January 7, 2010 Never had real problems in the Scorp on grass, and the land I drive it on is only up or down, and invariably wet!! Brig Gen Julian Thompson is on record saying he should have sent some CVRTs with 2 Para to Goose Green, he hadn't realised how capable they were. Seems that isn't the case on ice - but then is anything good on ice?!? A BV206 perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stone Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I was going to suggest the Russian APCs but then I saw this :shake: http://rutube.ru/tracks/1976981.html?v=e0d2f1a27964b37728eb013d6b1ecf5d Terrifying doesn't even begin to cover it... I think you'd need a pretty aggressive track profile to properly deal with the relatively thin snow-over-ice we're getting here - even cars just smash the snow flat and then slide on the ice. The Russian vehicles I've driven have an arrangement where each track has a high/low ratio selectable in the final drive, and pulling each tiller first selects the low ratio in that final drive and then applies a track brake on that side when pulled further. Might help a bit if both tracks are still actively driven but with one going faster...? Stone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I was going to suggest the Russian APCs but then I saw this :shake: http://rutube.ru/tracks/1976981.html?v=e0d2f1a27964b37728eb013d6b1ecf5d Terrifying doesn't even begin to cover it... I think you'd need a pretty aggressive track profile to properly deal with the relatively thin snow-over-ice we're getting here - even cars just smash the snow flat and then slide on the ice. The Russian vehicles I've driven have an arrangement where each track has a high/low ratio selectable in the final drive, and pulling each tiller first selects the low ratio in that final drive and then applies a track brake on that side when pulled further. Might help a bit if both tracks are still actively driven but with one going faster...? Stone That video was impressive to say the least!! The OT/BMP series are supposed to be remarkably good on snow due to the narrow track width and the pattern of the track link. There are some videos up on YouTube: For sure the BMP series do not have the "graded" steering you refer to. They have a high/low ratio selector on the tiller column (tiller bar, not separate tillers) and in low ratio there is no progressive steering just hard left/right turns. High ratio gives progressive steering and - apparently - is the one recommended for snow and ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Having sorted out the knew phycodelic forum, I think. I've just found my next project http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,213971.0/topicseen.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzercommander Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 I had a problem with my ole Leo hooked up with the mine rollers during a winter ex and going over a hill became a 48 ton sled that went all of the way down a hill , running over a pick up's front end and then crashing into the tree's......no injuries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stone Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 For sure the BMP series do not have the "graded" steering you refer to. They have a high/low ratio selector on the tiller column (tiller bar, not separate tillers) and in low ratio there is no progressive steering just hard left/right turns. High ratio gives progressive steering and - apparently - is the one recommended for snow and ice. It's not 'graded' so much as two seperate systems. For example in a left turn you pull the left tiller back from the fully-forward position to halfway back (it goes clunk and stops in a detent) - this changes the final drive ratio and you start to steer left. Pulling the tiller even further back into the second detent allows the brake band on that side to be engaged, just like a 432 (the harder you pull the more the turn tightens because you're slowing the track more). The thing to watch is that when you straighten up or want to turn the other way you have to push the tiller fully forward, otherwise when you pull the other tiller you have both tracks in the lower gear and you go straight on instead of turning! I expect being good on snow was a major design criteria for all Soviet gear - but they have very different snow conditions to us! If you have multiple feet of snow before hitting ice at the bottom you'll always do better... Stone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Having sorted out the knew phycodelic forum, I think. I've just found my next projecthttp://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,213971.0/topicseen.html That looks cool - but think of the "fun" Health and Safety would have with you over those exposed rear drive chains!!!! It's not 'graded' so much as two seperate systems. For example in a left turn you pull the left tiller back from the fully-forward position to halfway back (it goes clunk and stops in a detent) - this changes the final drive ratio and you start to steer left. Pulling the tiller even further back into the second detent allows the brake band on that side to be engaged, just like a 432 (the harder you pull the more the turn tightens because you're slowing the track more). The thing to watch is that when you straighten up or want to turn the other way you have to push the tiller fully forward, otherwise when you pull the other tiller you have both tracks in the lower gear and you go straight on instead of turning! I expect being good on snow was a major design criteria for all Soviet gear - but they have very different snow conditions to us! If you have multiple feet of snow before hitting ice at the bottom you'll always do better... Stone OK - my misunderstanding!! I think perhaps the BMP design is an improvement over that though - no need to worry about where you are with the tiller bar other than how tight you are turning! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 H&S ? That Mon V is why we have the Sherman as a gate gaurd! :cool2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 I tried (un sucessfully) to find that bit of film of a sherman in the Ardennes sliding slowly out of control on an icy cobbled road during the war... you wouldn't imagine anything that bit losing traction but there y'go These storys are also told by vets. of the 1st and 99th div in the Ardennes near Bullingen. Shermans sliding down hill, spinning around and ending up in houses and ditches... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 Churchills both in NW Europe Campaign and Korea had a tendency to do the same, if I remember correctly the Cent also needed Swedish derived snow pegs to avoid the same problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John H Dale Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 Hi Great pics of your CVRT in the snow.I took my T34 85 out yesterday in nearly a foot of snow and she handled brilliantly.Must be the extra weight ,it was great to use it in the enviroment it was designed for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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