radiomike7 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Anyone seen one of these before? Fitted with a Perkins 180bhp V8, 6 speed Turner gearbox and 2 speed transfer, the mid 70s brochure suggests that it is production ready. The 16 ton GVW makes it a Bedford TM rival but were they ever evaluated by the military? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Anyone seen one of these before? Fitted with a Perkins 180bhp V8, 6 speed Turner gearbox and 2 speed transfer, the mid 70s brochure suggests that it is production ready. The 16 ton GVW makes it a Bedford TM rival but were they ever evaluated by the military? If my memory serves me correctly, there were three contenders, Foden 4x4, Leyland and Bedford TM of course. I might me wrong though.... According to Jane's, there was a 6x6 Leyland version that contended for the Australian Army 6x6 contract.....Mack won that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
les freathy Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Richard is correct Bedford Foden and Leyland were contenders for the 8 tonne range with as we know the TM winning but there was another contender i have a file on these British prototypes and will dig out some info also somewhere a shot of the Australian leyland 6 wheeler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 but there was another contender Les, That would have been Shelvoke, their cab design was similar to their fire engines and dustcarts. Their is a pic of it in Jane's with a Marshalls body, same as TM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
les freathy Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 To bring this thread together here are images of the contenders The Bedford TM the winner as we all know, the Leyland Mastiff ( it even made the Aldershot army show in the mid 1970s) the Foden, afraid i cant lay my hands on the cargo photo but this recovery shows the type of cab that they submitted and the shelvoke Going back to the TM i have always wondered why the cream and black livery on the early prototype prehaps Bedford thought it more prolific Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoggyDriver Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Perkins V8 you say Mike. Bet that was pretty good in the performance stakes? Do you know what CC it was? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) Perkins V8 you say Mike. Bet that was pretty good in the performance stakes? Do you know what CC it was? Can't remember what the cc was but the ones we used to operate were quoted at 180bhp fitted in Ford's and Dodges. Even when they were going, which wasn't very often, the performance was poor at 24tonnes gross. Edited November 24, 2009 by Degsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoggyDriver Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Can't remember what the cc was but the ones we used to operate were qouted at 180bhp fitted in Ford's and Dodges. Even when they were going, which wasn't very often, the performance was poor at 24tonnes gross. I take it the engine wasn't that reliable then? I'd love a Bedford 500 in my MJ. The 330 I think is just too small especially with the Electronic Repair Radar body on mine. I wonder if it's a straight swap? Anyone know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I take it the engine wasn't that reliable then? I'd love a Bedford 500 in my MJ. The 330 I think is just too small especially with the Electronic Repair Radar body on mine. I wonder if it's a straight swap? Anyone know? The Perkins V8 was very unreliable, always breaking down and the 500 we had in TM's were just as bad, we replaced the 500's with Leyland engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
les freathy Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Here is another look at the Shelvoke truck, there power unit was a Leyland 411E turbo charged engine Its not well known but Shelvoke also went for the 14 tonne range as seen here and how about the chart of proposed varients Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berna2vm Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 The Perkins engine would have been the V8-540 8.8 litres.. Naturally aspirated with about 182 bhp. Not the best engine in the world,as others have commented. We had a couple of Ford D series 2417 tractor units which were woefully inadequate at 24 tons gvw. Made a great noise though. We called them the Growlers!!! Now, if Leyland had made them with an AEC engine..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoggyDriver Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 The Perkins V8 was very unreliable, always breaking down and the 500 we had in TM's were just as bad, we replaced the 500's with Leyland engines. When 1 Squadron went from a DROPS Squadron to a Royal Engineer and Ambulance support Squadron we got a load of 8 ton TM Tippers. We never used them much granted, but I cannot remember many problems with the engines. What do you think of the AEC diesel engines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 When 1 Squadron went from a DROPS Squadron to a Royal Engineer and Ambulance support Squadron we got a load of 8 ton TM Tippers. We never used them much granted, but I cannot remember many problems with the engines. What do you think of the AEC diesel engines? Not had a lot of personal experience of AEC engines but generally good. I know several people who have had much experience and absolutely swear by them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berna2vm Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 When 1 Squadron went from a DROPS Squadron to a Royal Engineer and Ambulance support Squadron we got a load of 8 ton TM Tippers. We never used them much granted, but I cannot remember many problems with the engines. What do you think of the AEC diesel engines? Sorry for the delay. The inline 6 cylinder AEC engines of the late sixties/early eighties were,in my opinion the finest diesel engines ever made. Powerful with good torque and yet flexible with the capability to rev if necessary. We had AV 505 engines in AEC Mercury 16 tonners and all had done in excess of half a million miles when they were replaced. Not one of them even had the rocker boxes removed during service! Similar story with AV 760 powered Mandator tractor units... AEC were a 'premium' truck manufacturer and when hauliers purchased them they would operate them for years. Operators who bought non premium vehicles would typically dispose of them after a few years and then purchase new ones. Unfortunately AEC were absorbed into the Leyland group, British motor holdings and were subsequently starved of finances, particularly towards the end of the sixties. They made a V8 which would have been a world leader but their R&D department was so cash starved that it was released in an undeveloped state. By the time they had sorted it out the damage had been done. If only Leyland had'nt been involved... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 (edited) Sorry for the delay. The inline 6 cylinder AEC engines of the late sixties/early eighties were,in my opinion the finest diesel engines ever made. Powerful with good torque and yet flexible with the capability to rev if necessary. We had AV 505 engines in AEC Mercury 16 tonners and all had done in excess of half a million miles when they were replaced. Not one of them even had the rocker boxes removed during service! Similar story with AV 760 powered Mandator tractor units... AEC were a 'premium' truck manufacturer and when hauliers purchased them they would operate them for years. Operators who bought non premium vehicles would typically dispose of them after a few years and then purchase new ones. Unfortunately AEC were absorbed into the Leyland group, British motor holdings and were subsequently starved of finances, particularly towards the end of the sixties. They made a V8 which would have been a world leader but their R&D department was so cash starved that it was released in an undeveloped state. By the time they had sorted it out the damage had been done. If only Leyland had'nt been involved... AEC were always regarded as the "Rolls Royce" of the commercial world, you paid more but you alsogot more, in terms of better engineering. Remember (nearly?) every Rolls Royce Merlin that flew in WW2 had it final drive gears ground by AEC. Edited December 5, 2009 by antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berna2vm Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 AEC were always regarded as the "Rolls Royce" of the commercial world, you paid more but you alsogot more, in terms of better engineering. Remember every Rolls Royce Merlin that flew in WW2 had it final drive gears ground by AEC. Here here Mike. Thank you for the info regarding the Merlin engines,truely you do learn something new everyday!!! I shed tears with the passing of AEC. I could not understand why a manufacturer of such good quality vehicles could disappear. Thirty odd years later understanding the industrial politics of the 70's you realise it was a crime... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 (edited) Here here Mike.Thank you for the info regarding the Merlin engines,truely you do learn something new everyday!!! I shed tears with the passing of AEC. I could not understand why a manufacturer of such good quality vehicles could disappear. Thirty odd years later understanding the industrial politics of the 70's you realise it was a crime... The gears were actually ground by The British Gear Grinding and Manufacturing Company, which was a subsiduary of AEC. There factory was at Southall in the shadow of AEC's parent works, but they had a shadow factory at Hillingdon. Apart from Merlin gears, they also ground the gears for the Griffon and the Napier Sabre engines. I don't know about later in the war but AEC claim that every Spitfire and Hurricane flying during the Battle of Britain, had gears they had ground. Edited December 5, 2009 by antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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