No Signals Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Maybe some of you fellas might have more expert knowledge on this and might be able to settle a difference of opinion between myself and another mv owner. When you first insure a vehicle you have the option to declare the number of occupants it has space for; in both the cab and, if applicable, in the back. I maintain that even if you have a, for the sake of description, a 'cargo' body (that may at one time have held troop seats - perhaps even quite a lot) but if you dont have fixed seating there now then you cannot have legal insurance cover for persons in the back. The other guy says he believes that as long as he has declared 'xyz' people for the vehicle including a number in the back then he is covered. Irrespective of any construction and use regs, which I believe are not relevant to this specific insurance point, I think that anyone carrying people in the back using stuff like folding garden seats or sandbags to sit on is asking for trouble insurance wise if they have a knock. What say you chaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFowler Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I would say you are right ! Not a lawyer mind you !:sweat: I can remember the great fun we had as Scouts all piled up in the back of a van full of camping gear off to camp nearly thirty years ago ! Bl--dy hell I'm getting old !:-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Does it not go on the stated seating capacity on the V5 :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I would say you are right ! Not a lawyer mind you !:sweat: I can remember the great fun we had as Scouts all piled up in the back of a van full of camping gear off to camp nearly thirty years ago ! Bl--dy hell I'm getting old !:-D Andy, you have reminded me of going on a Scout camp in early Sixties. All the Troop and Leaders travelled in the back of a BMC FG removal van. My eyes were streaming due to diesel fumes by time we got to the New Forest. Cannot see that happening now, even the Army use coaches now, rare to see a 4-tonner full of troops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFowler Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 My V5 has nothing in the seated or standing passenger column for my Pig ! It has seat belts for eight in the back if I remember correctly ! Too juicy for cabbing though ! :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 My V5 has nothing in the seated or standing passenger column for my Pig ! It has seat belts for eight in the back if I remember correctly ! Too juicy for cabbing though ! :-D Is it registered as a minibus:cool2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topdog Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Sorry guys but if there is not fixed seating in the back then it is also an immediate fixed penalty ticket for £60 and 3 points for the driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFowler Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Andy, you have reminded me of going on a Scout camp in early Sixties. All the Troop and Leaders travelled in the back of a BMC FG removal van. My eyes were streaming due to diesel fumes by time we got to the New Forest. Cannot see that happening now, even the Army use coaches now, rare to see a 4-tonner full of troops. Happy days Richard ! :-D I have wonderful memories of my days in the Scouts ! :-D:-D:-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisg Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Andy, you have reminded me of going on a Scout camp in early Sixties. All the Troop and Leaders travelled in the back of a BMC FG removal van. My eyes were streaming due to diesel fumes by time we got to the New Forest. Cannot see that happening now, even the Army use coaches now, rare to see a 4-tonner full of troops. Mrs Chrisg remembers going to North Wales in an old Bedford CA and having to have the doors open to get rid of the oil fumes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFowler Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Is it registered as a minibus:cool2: No Lee I'm proud to say its an historic vehicle !:cool2: My mate was asked if he intended to use his 432 as a cab by the lady on the end of the phone when he mentioned the number of rear seats it had when getting an insurance quote ! Bless her ! :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Signals Posted September 17, 2009 Author Share Posted September 17, 2009 Does it not go on the stated seating capacity on the V5 :confused: I believe he has the same capacity number stated on the V5, but sure as hell there are no fixed seats outside of the cab. Dont get me on about trips in furniture vans etc with the Scouts. Never heard of any mass deaths in accidents though. The only time we were ever pulled over it was a coach we were in! Something to do with overloaded I seem to recall. Good job they never stopped any of the vans:-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightweight Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Sorry guys but if there is not fixed seating in the back then it is also an immediate fixed penalty ticket for £60 and 3 points for the driver. Can anyone define 'fixed seating'? Do benches count? Do wheel arches (like a Landy or Dodge?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Can anyone define 'fixed seating'? Do benches count? Do wheel arches (like a Landy or Dodge?) I was just wondering that myself... The troop seats in the backs of RL's and MK's were effectively "clip-in" units but that is all thy were designed to carry seating wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REME 245 Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 All the Army 4 tonners used for carrying troops appear now have plastic moulded seats with belts fitted as standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 When 'Crown Imunity' effectively disappereared the Army had to become 'industrial' . Hence the use of coaches for any trip over twenty minutes. There has been so much messing about with seating capacitys and licences latley it has become confusing. The old Land Rover Safari was 12 seats, this was to avoid tax regulations at the time, they are now 10 seats. Also if I rember the max now for a group B licence is five or seven. Some of us still have D1, that is mini bus up to sixteen seats including driver. Now if you wantto drive a minibus it needs a full Class D PCV licence. Once you have that number of seats and weight of vehicle become irelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Signals Posted September 18, 2009 Author Share Posted September 18, 2009 Can anyone define 'fixed seating'? Do benches count? Do wheel arches (like a Landy or Dodge?) I'd have thought the Dodge locker/seating arrangement counted as ok as it has (unless they've been removed) the fold up seat backs which turn them in to an effective 'bench'. I would not have thought the wheel arches such as in my MW would count though as they dont have any kind of back support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Sorry guys but if there is not fixed seating in the back then it is also an immediate fixed penalty ticket for £60 and 3 points for the driver. Just so I have the right end of the stick here - so if I had folks in the back of the GMC I would get £60 and 3 points? :sweat: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevpol Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 When 'Crown Imunity' effectively disappereared the Army had to become 'industrial' . Hence the use of coaches for any trip over twenty minutes. There has been so much messing about with seating capacitys and licences latley it has become confusing. The old Land Rover Safari was 12 seats, this was to avoid tax regulations at the time, they are now 10 seats. Also if I rember the max now for a group B licence is five or seven. Some of us still have D1, that is mini bus up to sixteen seats including driver. Now if you wantto drive a minibus it needs a full Class D PCV licence. Once you have that number of seats and weight of vehicle become irelevant. I have D, DE,D1,D1E, but although I can drive a hire minibus, I cant use it for hire and reward, even though I have a PCV! Very confusing!!! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 I have D, DE,D1,D1E, but although I can drive a hire minibus, I cant use it for hire and reward, even though I have a PCV! Very confusing!!! Mark No you need the dreaded Driver's CPC to work commercially and an O licence if not driving for a company that has one... don't go there! Basically depending on age of vehicle. If you carry passengers in the back there must be seats. So a series three with a standard back, benches can carry passengers but a HCPU no benches can't. It's Construction and use regulation that covers it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 No you need the dreaded Driver's CPC to work commercially and an O licence if not driving for a company that has one... don't go there! Basically depending on age of vehicle. If you carry passengers in the back there must be seats. So a series three with a standard back, benches can carry passengers but a HCPU no benches can't. It's Construction and use regulation that covers it. So if I've got this right then - using an RL as an example - if the standard troop seats that clip over the side gates are fitted then you are OK.. Otherwise you are not??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 The trouble is that most regulations have an 'except'.Vehicles pre 1964 are exempt seat belts and as long as the pasenger is not siting on the floor but in a seat ATTACHED to the vehicle structure. So if the troop seats fit firmly to the side OK. Remeber the old bench seat Mini buses? All the info I've been able to find so far is for vehicles post 1982! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisg Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Just so I have the right end of the stick here - so if I had folks in the back of the GMC I would get £60 and 3 points? :sweat: You wouldn't get £60 but would have to pay it :rofl: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Just so I have the right end of the stick here - so if I had folks in the back of the GMC I would get £60 and 3 points? :sweat: I think it's only breaking the law if you are moving Jack... so you're safe:coffee: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 I think it's only breaking the law if you are moving Jack... so you're safe:coffee: Watch it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Stick the 'orse on the front! Then it moves and you don't have to worry about seat belts etc. You can also have a p*** against the back wheel! :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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