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Tamber

It's here! (Bedford RL)

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Thanks, doug! There were no signs of a dropped valve, thankfully. Either it's a case of mistaken identity on the vehicle, or it was fixed at some point in the past.

 

Progress is somewhat slow, but I'll just keep plodding on. A good lump of progress was actually made today; I got a phone-call from Phoenix Radiators this afternoon, and picked up a nice shiny rebuilt radiator. (My wallet cried a little; but it can suck it up. :D)

 

MOsEqb5.jpg?1

 

 

Which I rushed to work to fit (stopping along the way to get some more coolant/antifreeze.), in a fit of giddiness.

 

iZiPhh5.jpg?1

 

(The scuff is my fault. Terribly embarrassing; but no leak caused. :blush: )

 

Only one small leak when all filled up, and that was a hose-clamp that was slightly loose. Brought up to temperature, and turned around, with no major drama; though it was a little bit of a struggle, having to do a loop around the cherry-picker someone parked next to it.

 

Mirrors might be a good thing to fix next; but at least now she's fully mobile, so I can also run her up to the workshop to start on the rust & bodywork repairs. The underside of the cab floor on the passenger's side is worse than I first thought; but there's enough solid metal there that I'm not having to do a full reconstruction.

 

One step at a time, though. :)

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iam glad its worked out for the better. its deffo the same Bedford as I found a photo of it just after the auction . I have to say I wish I got it out of him before it was sold . keep the photos coming as I wou;ld like to follow this blog .

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I'm also very very glad it's worked out so far. It wouldn't have been a deal-breaker, but it certainly would've been frustrating.

 

I shall try to take more photos, and keep a better record, of what I manage to get done. Though there's not too much to show, so far.

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Now to work on getting it to stop. :D

 

Lud8UeT.jpg?1

 

Doesn't quite look like the one in the manual, somehow...

 

E7ClXj8.png

 

The master cylinder should be easy enough to figure out and get a rebuild kit for; it has "Clayton Dewandre" cast into the side of the fluid reservoir, but I've not yet cleaned it up to have a better look at. It's currently just sitting on the healing bench; getting in my way. :D (I subscribe to AvE's "Empire of Dirt" organisational scheme, as may be obvious. :blush: )

 

Hopefully, when I clean it up, I'll find some other markings, or a plate, of some description that helps me figure out what bits I'm going to need to get in order to make it all work again.

 

I also managed to get the winch turning again, and hoiked off all the manky old winch rope. It's not gone in the scrap skip (yet?); but it's unlikely I'd be putting it back on. It's started to fray in patches, and it's got kinks in it; so I'd really rather not try and use it. Call me paranoid if you will -- some of my more ...stingy co-workers are; and I've been told that as soon as I price up a new wire rope for the winch, I'll be putting the old one back on. *eyeroll* -- but I'd really rather not have a winch cable snap if I decide to use the winch for something.

 

(Apparently, in their minds, the only thing this truck will ever get used for is to go to shows and look pretty; so I only need a winch rope to sit on a drum and look the part. To be honest, I haven't thought far enough ahead to worry about what I'm going to use it for, but I'd rather like to be able to use the winch if I need to. I'll burn that bridge when I get to it, though.)

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And how then do you pay for you're show, if not by winching out those stuck in the mud? :D winch cable isn't that expensive, it the Dynemma rope that is eye watering, about £2 a metre. I got my last cable from a local firm that mostly does lifts, they supplied cable fittings and all instructions.

 

That master looks similar to the old Bedford QL one. Pastparts rebuilt one for a friend some years back, still going strong.

Edited by Tony B

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If you know anyone that does crane hire you might be able to scrounge some take off crane rope. That will be much better at one end than the other and is used in quite long lengths which obviously need to be to lifting standard for their whole length. Once condemed for lifting it has little value but should be fine for you. The only things that I would not use it with are: broken strands (they really hurt when they go through your hand), serious rust, kinks, in that order.

 

David

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winch cable isn't that expensive

 

A quick scan of the interblags -- I don't feel the need to phone people up and annoy them asking for prices, when I'm this far away from needing it :D -- puts it at just about £25/meter for 18mmø 6x36 wire rope; which is about equivalent to what came off. (When I'm nearer to needing the winch rope, I'll have a proper look around.)

 

The 1958 handbook says the winch rope would be 250 feet of 11/16ths diameter 6x37 rope wire rope; and the WSM claims it should have a breaking strain of 16-1/2 tons, and have a 6 foot red-painted section. I did notice the remnants of the red paint while dragging it all out.

 

02XEXKv.jpg?1

 

Doesn't look like there's 250 feet there, though.

 

If you know anyone that does crane hire you might be able to scrounge some take off crane rope. That will be much better at one end than the other and is used in quite long lengths which obviously need to be to lifting standard for their whole length. Once condemed for lifting it has little value but should be fine for you.

 

That's definitely something I'll bear in mind;

 

That master looks similar to the old Bedford QL one. Pastparts rebuilt one for a friend some years back, still going strong.

 

Hmm. That sounds promising; I'll have to clean the master cylinder and servo up a bit better and see if I can find some part numbers to narrow it down a bit closer.

 

The wheel cylinders, I'm not expecting to have too much trouble with; but we shall see. :)

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The 6 foot of red is standard practice. Friction holds the wire on the drum so the red shows your own the last wrap. I'd wonder about the wheel cylinders though. My experience is put a new master cylinder on an old system, plus new fluid, and the increased pressure make the rest go in sympathy. Maybe use cupro nickel pipe as well, fit and forget.

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I more meant that I wasn't anticipating much trouble with getting parts for the wheel cylinders. Sorry for the confusion. :-) Even if they weren't potentially bad, I'd still go through them and change the seals; it doesn't make sense not to, considering how long it's sat.

 

Definitely going for new cupro-nickel brake lines, too; the old steel ones are totally shot. I keep twisting them off while trying to undo fittings. (I'm also planning on replacing the air lines with modern nylon pipe, while I'm in there.)

 

Mini-update from today:

The alternator works; it's a little on the edge at idle, with the filament in the charging warning light pulsing very faintly, but I suspect that's mostly because the pulley is effectively larger than it should be due to where the belt sits in it, and that's slowing it down just enough so that it only barely charges at idle. Not a massive problem, though.

 

I've also freed off the windscreen, so both sides now open; though it's all a little tiny bit crusty. More little bits to disassemble and clean up, at some point. Yay! :rolleyes:

 

nATfUMB.jpg?1

 

Also, the latch for the engine cover now turns! So now I can consider re-fitting that, once all my wiring's done.

 

On the downside, the ...antique yellow Dulux coach paint in one of the side lockers has started to leak where it's eaten through the bottom of the tin; and it now looks like I've cracked an oversized egg down the side of the truck. :rofl:

 

haU5BlX.jpg?2

 

Eww...

qVvXWFd.jpg?1

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From what you said about the air pipes I gather yours has air over hydraulic brakes, I seem to remember the AFS ones were vacuum hydraulic which explains the different servos.

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The section of manual I copied that diagram out of is the section for the air-assist brakes, unfortunately. However, it's the 1955 manual, so I do wonder how much has changed in the later ones.

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Hi Tamber,

only just discovered this thread yesterday, and Ive really enjoyed reading it!

 

Always loved the RL, and I am really pleased another one is safe, good job fella. A good mate of mine used to have an RLW , and I got to drive her a few times, cracking truck. Incidentally, he still has a radiator (you could have done with it a few days ago, sorry) and three grills which he wants 100 quid for the lot for if that is of interest to you. The main problem is we are the other end of the country from you, in deepest darkest Southern Hampshire.

 

Out of curiosity, are you aiming to bring her back to military spec, or keep her in her civvy trim as she is now: I used to think they should always be brought back to original, but a friend pointed out to me that a whole period of history gets lost if we do that every time. There would be no AEC Matador timber tractors, no Bedford MW breakdown trucks, no French Fire Service GMCs, etc etc. Personally, I think she would look fantastic in the colours shes in now, but either way Im just glad she is safe in preservation.

 

Keep up the regular updates, Tamber, we want more!

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Don't worry, I'm definitely going to be keeping the yellow paint job. :D DBG is nice, but I just can't see my truck in it. (Though it most definitely was in it. Underneath all that yellow; the inside of the roof -- where it was covered by the roof lining; etc.)

 

Update of the Day

 

I've pulled the brake servo and master cylinder apart... well, the master cylinder off the servo, and dismangled the servo. Rusty brake fluid puked out of back of the master cylinder, so the seals are clearly well and truly shot. m/c was set aside for now while I focussed on the servo.

 

jKuRI6J.jpg?1

 

lemS3zq.jpg?1

 

Mmmmh, schmoo.

 

To start with, the linkage to the brake pedal was just flopping about uselessly, and the rod to push on the back of the master cylinder wasn't going anywhere in a hurry; so I pulled off the cylindrical bit on the front, that runs parallel to the master cylinder.

 

Caution: It contains a spring-a-mathing, and it sprung-a-mathung, even though I was expecting it and was bracing. I did manage to keep hold of all the pieces, though.

 

1Rd5eDv.jpg?1

 

Next move was to remove the other big daft chamber thing; again I braced for spring-a-mathinging, but there wasn't any this time.

 

Plenty of crud, though. :-X

DsVNitB.jpg

 

But this let me peer into the mechanism.

YuDEo7l.jpg

 

Nothing too complex; but that fixed pin on the right was definitely unhappy. Plenty of corrosion around one end of it; probably where it's been steeped in gunge for the last however-long.

 

Over my lunch break, I dragged the mechanism-y bit and the Big Daft Chamber over to the pressure washer and gave it a good blasting down; which made it easier to handle. Then I used my 3 pm break to wire-brush the rust off -- 4" grinder and a wire cup brush FTW! Just be really careful that it doesn't snag an edge and kick back, or you lose fingerprints and sizeable chunks of flesh before you can say "Ow" --, and paint, the outside of the pneumatic assist piston's cylinder; looks rather nice, now, in satin black.

 

Anyway, then I had to get the mechanism working again. I broke out the hot air-gun and gave it some warmth, and a lot of penetrating oil. After three or four goes around with this routine -- eyes watering heavily in the fumes of vapourising Double TT -- I eventually got it to start moving!

 

With this wind in my sails, I broke out the air-gun, and started applying pressure to the assist piston. Whereupon it went to the end of its travel, and stuck there. Damn.

Cue levering on the mechanism to reset it, and a few more cycles of heat & oil, and behold!

 

 

The port I first applied pressure to, the wrong one, is the outlet of a little valve that's acted upon by the underside of the linkage to feed controlled air pressure to the assist ram.

 

I still need to get a fitting or two out of the BDC, such as the main air feed pipe to it, which I have managed to snap the top off... without budging it even slightly in the threaded boss. (I tried heat & penetrating oil, put the right size spanner on it -- the ring end, even! -- and all I did was round the top of it off. So then I broke out the stilsons, and broke the top right off it. Ah well, these things are sent to try us.)

 

Since there's no mechanical linkage between the BDC and the servo, the only purpose I can think that it serves is as an accumulator or other reservoir of air for the brake assist; so, in the worst case, I can cannibalise the chamber to turn it into a cover for the rear of the mechanism, and use another small air receiver -- with appropriate valving, etc. -- to replace it.

 

And more wire-brushing uncovered...

 

QnwKmam.jpg

 

Cast in "AP 7374" and stamped "APGA5183 1971 REV4". A quick search has revealed nothing enlightening about those markings. Perhaps enlightenment shall be found on the master cylinder; underneath its total skin of rust.

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Love the write up, and the bits of film. Very well done with the progress. I have found that keeping your pinkies away from sharp and pointy things like the noisy end of grinders is important. Blood letting is not too good for morale.

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I'm fairly sure the letters AP will stand for Automotive Products, they own Lockheed and parts boxes were always marked AP and Lockheed so parts may be still available from the truck parts factors. I hope this helps you.

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I'm fairly sure the letters AP will stand for Automotive Products, they own Lockheed and parts boxes were always marked AP and Lockheed so parts may be still available from the truck parts factors. I hope this helps you.

 

As far as I am aware, APGA was a prefix for Clayton Dewandre part numbers. Clayton Dewandre now come under the WABCO banner (was Westinghouse Brakes) and they could well recognise this unit and provide parts.

Don't think that CD were ever in the AP group ..... but could be wrong.

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As far as I am aware, APGA was a prefix for Clayton Dewandre part numbers. Clayton Dewandre now come under the WABCO banner (was Westinghouse Brakes) and they could well recognise this unit and provide parts.

Don't think that CD were ever in the AP group ..... but could be wrong.

 

As usual Richard you are correct, that will teach me to read the whole thread properly :blush: A quick Google confirmed Bedford did use Clayton Dewandre in the period and also showed a drawing of servo fitted to a Bristol bus which looks pretty much identical to the pictures in the thread.

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This is without doubt a Clayton air pressure servo and the numbers are good Clayton numbers.

 

There should be no issue with getting replacement parts if needed; these units, or similar ones, were used on most Bedford trucks and coaches of the period with air pressure hydraulic brakes.

 

Tamber, you should clean and examine the brake master and slave cylinder walls carefully for pitting. It's my experience that cylinder failure on Bedfords that have sat around is typically due to corrosion of the cylinder walls rather than wear to the seals; though obviously you would replace seals while it's all apart.

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Tamber, you should clean and examine the brake master and slave cylinder walls carefully for pitting. It's my experience that cylinder failure on Bedfords that have sat around is typically due to corrosion of the cylinder walls rather than wear to the seals; though obviously you would replace seals while it's all apart.

 

I haven't had a chance to start trying to pull the master apart, but I would be incredibly surprised if there wasn't any corrosion to the bore in it; especially considering the rusty brown gunge that was built up in the back of it. (Some corrosion is pretty much a given, with brake fluid's wonderful ability to pull moisture from the air.) I'll have to see if the machine-shop next door will bore and sleeve it, once I've gotten it apart and cleaned up.

 

Likewise, I've not even started trying to get to the slave cylinders yet; though my current plan is to work through them one corner at a time, starting with the fronts, as they're the least scary-looking in the manual. :blush:

 

Anyway, managed to pop the lid off the top of the reservoir and discover a black ooze that smelt vaguely like fish. Maybe, at one point, it was brake fluid...

 

XlAWQO0.jpg?1

 

Slapped that lid back on, wire wheeled the rust off it all and gave it a quick coat of red primer; at least that way, it's not encrusting everything with grunge while it's sitting around. I'll have to get some pictures now it's cleaned up, and see if I can find something that looks like a part number.

 

As far as I am aware, APGA was a prefix for Clayton Dewandre part numbers. Clayton Dewandre now come under the WABCO banner (was Westinghouse Brakes) and they could well recognise this unit and provide parts.

 

 

Well, that could be very handy; I'll have to remember that. :D

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Tamber,

if the machine shop cant help with the bore out and sleeve job, speak to Past Parts (in Norfolk I think, but cant remember), this is one of their specialities

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A tiny, miniscule amount of progress made on the brakes... I applied air to the outlet of the master cylinder, and tried to blow the piston out of the back after I removed the circlip. Well, it didn't come out (though plenty of foul-smelling oil did) -- it looks like there's a ridge of corrosion at the rear of the cylinder -- but it's now freed up and springs back like it should if I press it in with my thumb.

 

Hooray, I guess. :) I've got to dig up/make a jack stand that'll take the weight of the truck, then I'll start pulling the wheel cylinder + brake shoes on each corner. I'm aiming to keep the truck as a roller throughout the process, as much as possible; so only one wheel off at a time. That way I can still move it if required; while I sort out the brake cylinders and shoes.

 

Sunday's Update:

 

New, pretty battery-box! Remains of the old one in the background...

3CNfl3b.jpg?1

 

New, not-quite-so-pretty-anymore battery-box sorta welded in!

mi3u2h2.jpg

 

It's not fully welded in as much as I'd like it to be, but it's solid enough that it holds the battery up; and it will do the job sufficiently until I can rebuild the rotten floor around it and it becomes fully welded in. I would've liked to have fixed more of it; but I was already at the workshop until 1900H, and didn't have much light remaining... and didn't want to leave my big yellow hulk blocking the doorway when everyone turned up in the morning. That'd get me one hell of an earbashing.

 

(Especially since they'd not be able to move it... :angel: They'd have to figure out how to power up the fuel pump and the ignition coil, then figure out where the starter switch is, then figure out they'd need to bridge that with something because the switch doesn't work any more... then they'd have had to drive the whole heavy thing with no brakes all the way back to the compound, whereupon they would've run out of fuel exactly where I did, blocking the gateway into the compound. :rofl: Case in point:

)

 

I did manage to drop the battery through the floor when what remained of the old battery box ceased to do its job; but the damage appears to only be cosmetic... no leaking, anyway.

 

Today's Update:

 

Got some electrical parts in, so set about with that for a while this afternoon.

 

New positive battery lead in, routed through the cable hole in the floor and around to the new solenoid that replaces the dead starter button.

 

Ys9iocG.jpg

 

Once I have all the wiring in, I'll make sure it's all properly protected from abrasion and the like; but it makes life easier for it to be out in the open for now. The twin brown wires on the battery side of the starter solenoid are the output from the alternator, the thinner red wire from that stud is the feed forwards to the fuse-box -- it'll terminate at one of two insulated studs that I'll use to feed the fuses; the other insulated stud will be ignition lives, connected to the battery live stud by a beefy relay that's switched by the ignition key.

 

(I'll have to get the diagram drawn up, it should be a bit clearer then.)

 

Started running the wires for oil pressure switch (black/red); alternator field feed (green/black), via the ignition warning light; the starter solenoid switch feed (green/red); and a nice large feed to where the new fuse and relay box will be.

 

Then it really started hammering it down, and I decided I was too cold and wet to want to keep struggling with those wires as my fingers went numb; so I just draped them all off the carb and went home for some warmth.

 

MI5Du9c.jpg

 

The drips/puddles on the floor (and inlet manifold) that you can see, aren't from the roof; but the seal around the top of the windscreen. However, there are a few places that the roof is now see-through; and inevitably, the drips will come through those just as your bare neck is placed right below them... :shake:

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Mini-update!

 

cFwkggg.png

 

First signs of life! Okay, it's only those lights, and the starter solenoid, but it's the start of a long journey. The engine cranks over much much better with the solenoid than it ever did with the old starter button; but I've yet to fire her up since I last parked her up last week.

 

I also drained the fuel tank, and yuk :-X Came out looking like morning pee; and stunk something unmentionable.

Also, since I brutally mangled the drain plug removing it, I now have a grease-nipple stuck in the bottom of the fuel tank because it happened to be the same thread. It's the little things... :D

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