Tools and equipment

[Richard Farrant]

Hi all,

 

Jack has asked me to do a piece on choosing tools and equipment for maintaining or restoring MV's. Having been in vehicle engineering for nearly 40 years, the last 32 of them working on military vehicles, I should be able to answer any questions.

 

For those new to the hobby, you may be wondering what tools to buy, well this depends on a lot of things;

a) are you just servicing and leaving repairs to others.

b) doing all repair work

c) carrying out full restoration

 

then you have to look at the type of vehicle;

a) motorcycle

b) light to medium vehicle, ie jeep, Land Rover up to Dodge, MW, etc.

c) heavy vehicle, ie Jimmy, Bedford, Austin, AEC, Scammell, etc.

d) armour wheeled and tracked

 

The answers to these questions, will relate to the type and quantity of tools needed. Some will go out and buy a ready to go tool kit. It is unlikely to have all you need and undoubtedly, a lot you do not need!

 

Now let us look at basics, spanners and sockets. There are three types, Whitworth, AF (National Fine and National Coarse) and Metric. Most ready to go tool boxes will have only Metric.

 

If you own for instance, a WW2 Morris Commercial, then you will find that all the nuts and bolts are of BSF or BSW (British Standard Fine and British Standard Whitworth, the later being a coarse thread). Spanners to fit these are known as Whit. or Whitworth, so that is what you need. It is also likely that in later life, a few odd bolts will have been substituted, ie NF/NC or Metric.

 

A Land Rover Series II or III will need mostly AF spanners, but a few Whit. ones will still be needed in places, such as axles. A late L/Rover, such as 90/110 will be predominantly metric, but still likely to need the odd Whit.

 

Now if it were a European MV, such as a SUMB or VW Trekker, G-wagen, etc., then metric will be required.

 

Those that have the cash to spend will no doubt go for all three ranges, but it is when you get to over 1/2" Whit, 1" AF, or 25mm, that these tools get expensive, so you will have to identify what you are likely to need in these larger sizes.

 

I will break off here for now, no doubt some will want to comment or ask more, good thing, because I do not want to teach my gran to suck eggs, by going back to basics, although I feel some will appreciate it.

 

One last little story, when I was an apprentice back in the 60's, I asked the fitters in the workshop, what spanner sizes I ought to buy. They said don't bother with Whitworth, its on the way out, a waste of money! Now here am I, 40 years later still using those Whitworth every day of the week. Good job I took no notice of their advice :lol:

 

Richard

[Guest matt]

Hi Richard,

 

I have US vehicles and generally use original WW2 era tools for such as spanners(wrenches),plug sockets,wheel braces,drain plug wrenches etc. otherwise I have three socket sets going from 1/4" to 3/4" drive,numerous screw driver sets,several mole grips some of which I have machined for specific jobs.

 

One thing EVERY military vehicle owner needs is at least one pair of good heavy duty axle stands and a good jack,I use bottle jacks and will never use a trolly jack by choice after seeing one fail :shock:

 

Tools really are one area where the old saying "you get what you pay for" holds true,my advice to anyone would be spend as much as you can.

 

Matt.

[ArtistsRifles]

One thing EVERY military vehicle owner needs is at least one pair of good heavy duty axle stands and a good jack,I use bottle jacks and will never use a trolly jack by choice after seeing one fail

 

As a word of caution here - I had a lucky escape a few years ago working under the back end of a Van Den Plas 4 Litre R when a botle jack and an axle stand both failed - both were rated at 2 tons and should have been more than adequate for the job. Now for any type of jack or stand that I get - I take the recommended safe working load and add at least 50% to it.

[Richard Farrant]

Hi Richard,

 

I have US vehicles and generally use original WW2 era tools for such as spanners(wrenches),plug sockets,wheel braces,drain plug wrenches etc. otherwise I have three socket sets going from 1/4" to 3/4" drive,numerous screw driver sets,several mole grips some of which I have machined for specific jobs.

 

One thing EVERY military vehicle owner needs is at least one pair of good heavy duty axle stands and a good jack,I use bottle jacks and will never use a trolly jack by choice after seeing one fail :shock:

 

 

 

Hi Matt,

 

You are obviously well into it already I was aiming at the basics for starters. Yes, some of the old war surplus tools are good, but remember they may be getting a bit worn by now, unless they are unissued stock. Also, more modern spanners, tend not to be so "chunky" and fit better in tight to get at places.

 

Too jump a little, jacks and stands.....make sure you know the weight you are jacking, then you need to ensure the capacity of your jack is correct for the job, also the axle stand. Never depend on a jack alone, always have blocks of wood or stands under the vehicle near to the jacking point. I have no problems with trolley jacks, equally as good as a bottle jack, but if there are any leaks or faults these should be dealt with before an accident arises. In some cases, blocks of timber are safer than using stands, such as under the belly of an armoured vehicle.

 

Richard

[Meteor mark 4B]

Hmm, an ex REME mate reckons they had only 'ammers, small, large and larger!

[Richard Farrant]

Now for any type of jack or stand that I get - I take the recommended safe working load and add at least 50% to it.

 

 

Neil,

 

In fact when stands are made, they should be tested for a 50% overload. I prefer these newer type with the ratchet lock, rather than those with a pin through the hole. The ratchet ones are more variable in height and lock well with the weight on them. The pin type sometimes loose the correct pin and any old bolt or piece of rod gets substituted, which may not take the load and could possibly shear.

 

Richard

[Richard Farrant]

Hmm, an ex REME mate reckons they had only 'ammers, small, large and larger!

 

Maybe he was a tyre fitter or a blacksmith ??

 

I worked for REME in their workshops for 22 years as a fitter and we had a lot more than hammers. Mind you some of the jobs that came in, could have been attempted by your mate :lol:

 

At one time the basic VM toolbox was a pathetic assortment of tools, as you say, a couple of hammers, three crescent adjustable spanners and one of each size spanner.

 

We were lucky in having good kit, needing it too, with the variety of vehicles and equipment to work on.

 

Richard

[79x100]

'ammer. Is that the Cornish name for a Brummagem Screwdriver ?

 

I have bought a couple of Gedore Whitworth / BSF spanners fairly recently and they are good quality with the slimmest jaws I could find.

 

Anyone know of a current source for 3/8" drive Whitworth sockets ? Most Whitworth tools tend to be a bit clumsy and not ideal for working on motorcycles.

 

Box spanners were the period alternative to sockets and they vary enormously in fit. It is well worth taking samples of fasteners along to an Autojumble and trying the spanners out for the closest fit.

[ArtistsRifles]

Now for any type of jack or stand that I get - I take the recommended safe working load and add at least 50% to it.

 

 

Neil,

 

In fact when stands are made, they should be tested for a 50% overload. I prefer these newer type with the ratchet lock, rather than those with a pin through the hole. The ratchet ones are more variable in height and lock well with the weight on them. The pin type sometimes loose the correct pin and any old bolt or piece of rod gets substituted, which may not take the load and could possibly shear.

 

Richard

 

This is spot on regarding the pin type stands - although in my case the welds between the collar & the legs sheared when the axle came down as the jack failed.

Lucky I heard the sound of the seals going and that the vehicle collapse went the opposite way to the one I rolled in :shock:

[Richard Grosvenor]

Hello People!

 

I once heard someone say "You don't need all the tools, you just need the right tools"

 

I thought it was a bit stupid and pointless as well! :?

Get a Machine Mart catalogue, work your way through it ticking what you want and leave it somewhere obvious so loved ones will see it at Christmas and birthday times! :wink:

 

Regards

Richard ( the other one )

[Richard Farrant]

I once heard someone say "You don't need all the tools, you just need the right tools"

 

 

 

Richard,

 

Thats a good quote. It is not always possible to do the job with standard issue tools. I have made many specials, either spanners, pullers, etc. Also each vehicle had many special tools, which are no longer available now, so it is a matter of adapting or making them. Take the Saracen, Stalwart, Saladin range, there were many specials made for them.

 

If you are only in to one particular vehicle, it would be sensible to obtain a standard set of tools to compliment it, ie spanner sizes for all known hexagons, in sockets, (3/8" and 1/2" drive), cranked rings, open ended and combination.

 

Richard ( I'm getting confused, am I the other one, or is that you?)

[Jack]

Hey Richard,

 

This is great work, thank you very much!

 

Might have to re title this as, dear Dr.........

 

So here goes, a GMC weighs 5 ton so what 'tonnage' jack would I need to jack up one of the wheels?

 

Cheers.

 

Jack

[Jessie The Jeep]

Has anyone had any experience of "Metrinch" spanners and sockets? the type that are supposed to fit metric and imperial and all things between.

 

If so, what are your thoughts on them?

 

Steve

[Richard Farrant]

Has anyone had any experience of "Metrinch" spanners and sockets? the type that are supposed to fit metric and imperial and all things between.

 

 

 

Hmmm.........seen them, read about them but never tried them. I would sooner have a good fitting open ender.

 

Richard

[Jessie The Jeep]

From what I've heard, they drive on the flat of the nut, not the corners, so even worn rounded nuts can be removed. Still like to hear from someone who has tried them first hand.

 

Steve

[Richard Farrant]

Might have to re title this as, dear Dr.........

 

So here goes, a GMC weighs 5 ton so what 'tonnage' jack would I need to jack up one of the wheels?

 

 

 

Jack,

 

I was recently called the "Tank Doctor" on account I was wearing white overalls and using a pair of medical forceps for a fiddly job on a tank :lol:

 

I would go for an 8 to 10 ton bottle jack, they are reasonable priced and going over your required capacity means it will be less stressed and easier to use. I can only find laden axle weights for a Studebaker 6x6 (similar), but front axle is around 2 ton, which only means 1 ton on each front wheel. If that is a help.

 

Richard

[ArtistsRifles]

Has anyone had any experience of "Metrinch" spanners and sockets? the type that are supposed to fit metric and imperial and all things between.

 

 

 

Hmmm.........seen them, read about them but never tried them. I would sooner have a good fitting open ender.

 

Richard

 

Umm - I use thm quite a lot!! A nut or bolt head has to be virtually round before they fail to grip. Only problem I can forsee in using them on anything over a Jeep in size is the fact they don't - to the best of my knowledge - cover anything much over 25mm or 1" imperial.

Amything under this and they are a really useful bit of kit. Sockets are also available, normal or deep, or even impact.

 

This is the website: http://www.metrinch-tools.com/website/introductie.php

[Jack]

Thanks Richard.

 

Will do, thanks for that and nice one for kicking off a good subject.

 

Jack.

 

PS. bought another wire brush thing, see if I can use that one without destroying it :cry:

[Meteor mark 4B]

My REME mate was being silly when he talked of 'ammers, I feel. Talking of spanners, my dear old dad had many "imperial" tools as opposed to metric, and when he died they found a home somewhere in my shed. When I bought the Land rover in 2002 I was glad I kept them!

[Richard Farrant]

My REME mate was being silly when he talked of 'ammers, I feel.

 

Talking of spanners, my dear old dad had many "imperial" tools as opposed to metric, and when he died they found a home somewhere in my shed.

 

 

I thought he might have been he would have needed a chisel as well to dismantle :lol:

 

To those that have or are looking at getting old British vehicles, Whitworth spanners are not so easy to locate and can be expensive compared to metric. I have come across Whit combination sets and sockets, ranging from 3/16" to 1/2" on some of the cheap tool stalls at shows. For the occasional hobby use these are not bad, in fact they are cheep enough to buy three sets and keep the others for spares. I saw some at a show last year at £10 a set and on another stall, same set at £5. You would have a job to buy one spanner for that price at a tool shop.

 

Richard

[rambo1969]

My dad's a retired mechanic(although his champ, my landrover and all our friend's MV's keep him busy).

He swear's by brittool and won't use anything else. Watching him work is like watching a surgeon performing an operation!. He wipe's down every tool when he's finished with it and alway's put's it back in the same place in his toolbox.

Sometime's when i'm feeling naughty, I mix his AF's up with his metric's, he goes mad!!

[hardyferret]

 

I'll throw my two bits in GO TO A BOOT SALE and look out Britool often ex MOD top quality same as Snap on and you'll pay £1 a spanner or less

I use Snap on to earn a living but if I could find a local reliable Britool agent I'd use it in preference...

Also don't disregard machine mart their premier!!!!!!!!!! range is well up to hard hobby use.

Please avoid like the plague the cheap Kamasa and the stuff at the market stalls it's made from old spam cans not worth a ****

 

Regards Jerry

[Mark]

 

 

Hmmm.........seen them, read about them but never tried them. I would sooner have a good fitting open ender.

 

Richard

 

 

I would always use the ring end of a combination spanner where ever possible as it gives more contact on the nut whereas an open end can be prone to slipping off and doing the knuckles in

[TooTallMike]

Also don't disregard Halfords. Their 'professional' range has a no-quibble lifetime guarantee. As proof of this - we once foolishly snapped a 1/2" wobble extension while trying to undo a stubborn wheel nut. We took the 2 halves of the extension back to Halfords and they swapped it for a new one without ever asking what we'd been doing with it. Granted, their tools are not of the highest quality but who cares if they last forever...

 

ps. before anyone comments: I otherwise detest Halfords!

[ArtistsRifles]

I would always use the ring end of a combination spanner where ever possible as it gives more contact on the nut whereas an open end can be prone to slipping off and doing the knuckles in

 

 

Use the ring on a combo spanner - then if you need extra leverage take the next size up and "lock" the open jaws together!!!!!!!!!!