Crash information

[Tony B]

Can anyone advise where I can find information on a crash that happned in 1946? The incident involved a Polished crewed DC3/C47 that crashe in dnese fog into hills in Surey. Date 13. 02 1946. Two of the crew are buried at St Mary Cray in Kent. I was wondering why they were buried so far from any possible crash site.

[Rick W]

Do you know the name of the plane Tony?

[Tony B]

No, but the crew names were Brzezina, Stanislaw and Grodzicki Stanislaw DFC. Aircraft was from 74 Squadron.Both are marked as RAF personnel.

[Rick W]

Where were 74 squadron based in 1946?

[abn deuce]

I find this listing for that date of 2-13-1946

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19460213-0

this one was the only other near that date taken place in Britain 2-3-1946

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19460203-0

Edited December 21, 2008 by abn deuce
correct second date

[Rick W]

If it was a Polish crew would they have been crewing an RAF or CAF plane?

[antarmike]

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher/1942_5.html

This site has it as an RAF plane, not RCAF

[Rick W]

If you look on the 74 squadron history website, they make no mention of DC's.

http://www.thesoutheastecho.co.uk/74_squadron.htm

Just Spits and hurricanes. Are you sure it is 74?

[antarmike]

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Grodzicki

can anyone read Polish, looks like 435 Squadron to me. Date seems right also.

13 lutego 1946 Is this 13th Feb?

435 was a Canadian Squadron flying DC3's in Britain in 1946.

http://rcaf.com/squadrons/400series/435squadron.php

This site lists 3 planes lost in Britain and two crew deaths.

Edited December 20, 2008 by antarmike

[antarmike]

Stanisław Grodzicki (1912 in Ostrołęka – 1947) was a Polish fighter pilot and a Major of the Polish Air Force during the World War II. He fought during the battle of Britain in the No. 307 Polish Fighter Squadron. He was also briefly the commanding officer of that unit. He was killed in a plane accident in 1947.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Grodzicki

I think this is the same pilot, but the English Version of Wiki has the wrong date for his death.

Edited December 20, 2008 by antarmike

[Tony B]

Thanks guys, I'll e mail the info to the Polish guy who asked for the pictures. the third casualty apparently drowned, swimmimg in a river at Gatwick hatch. strange way to go. Apprentlly the DC3 was ferying troops to Berlin and crashed on the rreturn trip. Warligham would make sense as it is near to the enough and St Mary Cray already had RAF casualities from Biggin Hill. Funny though that Orpington wasn't used. Maybe there wasn't enough room in the CWWG section. Mystery on the doorstep.

[antarmike]

http://www.435-436.org/435history.htm

[antarmike]

any connection?

[antarmike]

http://www.imperial-airways.com/Croydon_airport_in_ww2_page_2.html

435 were at Croydon at the time., with Dakotas

[antarmike]

http://www.ody.ca/~bwalker/Cdn_others.html

The RCAF were flying planes with RAF serials in 1946 this included Dakatos of 435, 436 and 437 Squadron.

Edited December 21, 2008 by antarmike

[antarmike]

I suggest it was an RCAF Dakota, of 435 Squadron RCAF, based at Croydon, flying with RAF serial KG397, flown by R,G Joyce, an Canadian pilot allocated to 435 squadron, who died in the crash. I suggest that the Poles who died were part of the 8 Crew/ passengers ( most likely Passengers) that died in the crash (although Grodzicki Stanislaw DFC was a pilot he was not flying this plane). Joyces body was returned to Canada, and the Poles buried in England.

 

Poles probably on their way to England as displaced person/ refugees having finished Military service in Europe?

Edited December 21, 2008 by antarmike

[Tony B]

I think your right Mike. I've passed on info to Jan in Poland to try and find more. Just THINK we could be out at the pub, or watching telly! :-D

Thanks for all the help, a simple question so much more to go delving into.

[antarmike]

what we want is a babelfish version of the Polish WIKI page, except Babel doesn't do polish....

Edited December 21, 2008 by antarmike

[antarmike]

Pułku Lotniczego w Warszawie, gdzie od 1 listopada 1937 roku dowodził 212 eskadrą bombową. Uczestnik Wojny Obronnej Polski 1939. Pełnił obowiązki kierownika szkolenia na samolotach PZL P-37 "Łoś" w ośrodku szkolenia w Małaszewiczach koło Brześcia. Przez Rumunię przedostał się do Francji i jednym z pierwszych transportów w grudniu 1939 roku odpłynął do Anglii. Został skierowany na przeszkolenie specjalistyczne do 15 Podstawowej Szkoły Latania w Carlisie, a następnie do 15 OTU w Aston Down. Od 15 listopada 1940 roku dowodził 307 nocnym dywizjonem myśliwskim. 11 czerwca 1941 roku przeszedł na odpoczynek operacyjny. W 1944 roku otrzymał przydział do 305 dywizjonu bombowego. Początkowo był dowódcą eskadry, a od 1 lutego 1945 roku do 31 października 1945 roku dowódcą tegoż dywizjonu. Po przekazaniu obowiązków dowódcy dywizjonu swojemu następcy służył w Brytyjskim Lotnictwie Okupacyjnym (BAFO). 13 lutego 1946 roku na samolocie Douglas DC-3 "Dacota", należącym do 435 dywizjonu transportowego RAF, odbywał lot służbowy z Niemiec do Anglii z innymi oficerami Polskich Sił Zbrojnych. Zginął w wypadku lotniczym (samolot rozbił się podczas gęstej mgły) w miejscowości Surrey Hills, koło Orpington. Pochowany został na cmentarzu St. Mary Cry w Orpington (Kent), grób nr E 95. Odznaczony był Krzyżem Srebrnym Orderu Virtuti Militari (1.03.1945 roku), trzykrotnie Krzyżem Walecznych, brytyjskim Zaszczytnym Krzyżem Lotniczym (DFC), Złotym Krzyżem Zasługi, Polową Odznaką Pilota oraz innymi odznaczeniami polskimi i angielskimi.

 

Translates (badly) to

In warsaw aerial regiment, where it commanded (prove) bomb squadron from 1 november 1937 year 212. Participant of defensive war 1939 polish < poland >. It fulfilled duties of chiefs of instruction (training) on aircraft in center of instruction (training) in (to) " " circle PZL P-37 Łoś Małaszewiczach Brześcia. It has penetrated by romania for france and it has swum away one of first in december for england 1939 year transportów. Directed become (stay) on specialistic instructing for 15 basic school of flying in (to) Carlisie, but for 15 in (to) next OTU Aston Down. It commanded (prove) night hunting command (wing) from 15 november 1940 year 307. It has proceeded on operative rest 11 june 1941 year. Ration has received in 1944 year for 305 bomb command (wing). There was commander of squadron initially, but from 1 february 1945 year for 31 october 1945 year commander of this command (wing). It was as (serve) after transfer of duty of commander of command (wing) in british occupant aviation successor ( ) BAFO. On aircraft 13 february 1946 year " " Douglas DC-3 Dacota, for 435 transport command of (wing of) REEF necessary < belong >, official held from germany for england with other polish officers of military power lot (flight; lot). In air accident during thick fog in (to) locality perish (disappear) ( aircraft smash ) Surrey Hills, circle Orpington. It has been concealed on cemetery in (to) st. kent ( ) Mary Cry Orpington, tomb number 95 E. It was characterized cross of silver order 1.03.1945 year ( ) Virtuti Militari, triple brave cross, british honorable aerial cross ( ) DFC, cross of desert zloty < golden >, field badge of pilot (remote control) and other polish distinctions and english.

 

 

http://www.poltran.com/pl.php4

Edited December 21, 2008 by antarmike
I don't know what I am doing

[antarmike]

I also suggest the English Wiki Page is wrong and Grodzicki Stanislaw DFC, was not flying fighters during the battle of Britain, but commenced offensive flying with the RAF as a night Fighter pilot from 15th November 1940.

 

Prior to this he had training roles, in basic flying and an Operational Convertion Unit. Based on my interpretaion of the shakey translation!

 

(The last day in October normally being taken as the end of the Battle, although German historians usually use the end as May 1941.)

Edited December 21, 2008 by antarmike

[antarmike]

Joyce was piloting the plane.

http://www.rbc.com/history/in_remembrance/ww2_list-j.html

[abn deuce]

A link to the map of both locations , Warlingham and Saint Mary Cray for those outside Britain.

http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Warlingham,+Surrey,+UK&geocode=&dirflg=&daddr=saint+mary+cray&f=d&sll=51.334902,-0.054932&sspn=0.08301,0.21286&ie=UTF8&ll=51.356346,0.101624&spn=0.176233,0.42572&z=11

[antarmike]

KILLED ON ACTIVE SERVICE.—F/O. A. J. Clark;

Sqn. Ldr. R. G. Joyce.

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1946/1946%20-%201702.html

He was actually Squadron Leader, but we knew that from the War grave, but was F/O. A. J. Clark his co-pilot, dying with him?

Edited December 21, 2008 by antarmike

[antarmike]

A link to the map of both locations , Warlingham and Saint Mary Cray for those outside Britain.

http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Warlingham,+Surrey,+UK&geocode=&dirflg=&daddr=saint+mary+cray&f=d&sll=51.334902,-0.054932&sspn=0.08301,0.21286&ie=UTF8&ll=51.356346,0.101624&spn=0.176233,0.42572&z=11

Can we highlight Croydon Airfield, the intended landingstrip?

[abn deuce]

I can get you to the croydon area , you can use the add destination option and put in the details and see what comes up , as well as the detail will increase as you change the scale of the map but will loose the over view.

http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Warlingham,+Surrey,+UK&geocode=&dirflg=&daddr=saint+mary+cray&f=d&sll=51.334902,-0.054932&sspn=0.08301,0.21286&ie=UTF8&ll=51.356346,0.101624&spn=0.176233,0.42572&z=11