Green7 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Hi, anyone know where I might find info on markings for the M38A1? Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted October 8, 2005 Share Posted October 8, 2005 As far as British postwar markings go, I did a 15 page article in Windscreen about 5 years ago. It is my copyright so the fact that it appeared in a mag doesn't matter. If you had a files section I could post it as a pdf. Then perhaps others could send in reference stuff that could be accessed as I am sure like the GMC markings would get buried in post in the passing of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted November 5, 2005 Share Posted November 5, 2005 Hi How soon after WW2 did the British Army start painting their vehicles in Deep Bronze Green? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted November 5, 2005 Share Posted November 5, 2005 It seems to have been promulgated on 1st January 1948 in the "MOS FVDD FV Specification 2012 Painting of Fighting & Mechanical Transport Vehicles, Tracked & Wheeled". This laid down specs for painting of all service vehicles including top coats, undercoats. primers and markings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashley Posted November 5, 2005 Share Posted November 5, 2005 Hi ALL, would all vehicles have been painted in bronze green ?? Ashley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted November 5, 2005 Share Posted November 5, 2005 Deep Bronze Green BSC No.24 for AFVs, Army & RM MT transport. Dark Blue BSC No.7 for RN RAF Blue, Grey, BSC No.33 for RAF It makes no reference for anything different for staff cars, plant etc, but does say for Services requiring a grey semi-gloss finish then use Dark Battleship Grey BSC No.32. So in what circumstances that would be used I don't know. There were quite a variety of colours for interiors which are bit diffrent fom now. I see this FV Spec 2012 supercedes one issued on 6th Feb 1945, so it is possible that DBG was introduced from that date, I don't know. DBG of course has been around for a lot longer it appears in the 1931 "British Standard for ready mixed paints". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted November 5, 2005 Share Posted November 5, 2005 It makes no reference for anything different for staff cars, plant etc, but does say for Services requiring a grey semi-gloss finish then use Dark Battleship Grey BSC No.32. So in what circumstances that would be used I don't know. I see this FV Spec 2012 supercedes one issued on 6th Feb 1945, so it is possible that DBG was introduced from that date, I don't know. Clive, I had a feeling that DBG was re-introduced soon after the war ended in 1945, have come across it written somewhere. The grey you refered to would have been used in one instance, on DUKW's. I remember seeing one in service, late 50's / early 60's in grey. When I started working for the army in '74, most vehicles were in gloss DBG, from armour through to plant and very smart it looked too. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 The Royal Marines DUKW which was in N ormandy last year was painted grey and I wondered about the colour and although Iwas talking to the driver never thought to ask him about the colour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Ok just to throw a spanner in the works, I have an M38A1 Korean/Vietnam era, what is the correct colour that I should spray it? :?: and is there a supplier in this country of the correct paint. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest matt Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Hi Mark, I'm no ex-spert on post war vehicles but 50's/60's US army vehicles were quite a dark semi gloss green.I'm sure somwhere on the web somone has the paint codes for an M38-A1.try talking to John at http://www.midwestmil.com as he does a lot of M38-A1 parts. I have a set of slides of M151 MUTTS of the 1st Cav's "Rat Patrol" in Vietnam in 1968-69.they used all sorts of coulours to help the vehicles blend in including large amounts of mud! wish I could post them as pictures,one shot shows a M151 with a minigun mounted on it! Matt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Thanks for that I will give the website a look and come back. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 ome questions regarding markings/stencils; 1. Did all vehicles have standard markings. 2. I have seen some with markings on the petrol tank, bonnet and loads more without, is this a personal preference? 3. Again, I have seen on the tail gate 'left hand drive, no hand signals' but not on many vehicles. 4. What do the numbers mean that run on both sides of the bonnet. 5. What are the numbers on the bumper? 6. I have also seen people 'name' their vehicles, was this practiced during the WW2..... 7. How were British vehicles marked. 8 .Do we still mark our modern vehicles in the same manner. 9. What do the yellow disk mean on the front of vehicles..... Dredging back memories to the seventies and my time: #1 & #2 - Were not in use then. #3 - US vehicles over here did, thats all I can remember. #4 and #5 - same as #1 and #2 #6 - Depended on unit tolerance - the Mk 1 Militants I drove were always christened "Skewball" after a race horse - and you need to have driven a Mk1 to appreciate the irony 8) #7 - TA vehicles were still Bronze Green with TAC signs on the, I think, N/S and regiment crest on the O/S thus a vehicle from 151 Regt RCT(VR) would have a TAC sign of a square spilt diagonally blue on top with yellow at bottom and a white bar over the top of the square and a regt crest of a black square with a red tower on it. Regular vehicles were painted in the drab green/black cammo pattern. Only exceptions to this were the "unholy Trinity"(as it was then known) of 21, 22 and 23 - all bronze green and all unmarked. #8 - not really #9 - These were bridging plates and should carry a black number on them indicating the bridging requirement of the vehicle - for example the cargo versions of the Stalwart, FV620 and FV622 had a bridging class of 14 whilst the ammo limber and REME variants - FV623 and FV624 - with the Hiab cranes had a bridging class of 18. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 #9 - These were bridging plates and should carry a black number on them indicating the bridging requirement of the vehicle - for example the cargo versions of the Stalwart, FV620 and FV622 had a bridging class of 14 whilst the ammo limber and REME variants - FV623 and FV624 - with the Hiab cranes had a bridging class of 18. Funnily enough, just this morning I discussed this on another thread. Our recce regiment deployed to BAOR in late 1977. All the vehicles carried a yellow bridge classification plate on the front. Every bridge and culvert in Germany carried a similar plate (though they might contain more information, giving a different classification for say tracks and wheels for example). In theory, you might expect a Military Policeman to be guarding a bridge. He would note the classification of the bridge, and if your vehicle surpassed the classification of the bridge, "thou shalt not pass." Needless to say, there never were MPs on bridges, but vehicle commanders were expected to obey the bridge classifications. Note that the number on the vehicle indicated its maximum tonnage. Not its dry weight, but the weight it might theoretically carry including fuel, ammo, trailer, squaddies, etc. Although a Scorpion weighed 7 - 8 tons IIRC, ISTR its bridge classification was 12. ISTR Ferret was 4 and Saracen ACV was 14, but a quick reference to a pic will put me right. Being a recce regt, we were way forward of where any MP might need to see our bridge classification in a hurry, so all vehicles had their bridge classifications painted out in grey to reduce the aiming mark, which was all the thing served for us anyway. They were still greyed out when I transferred out in 1982. On one occasion as a scout car commander, I was tasked to lead a packet of Command Troop vehicles across Soltau training area. Unfortunately nobody gave me a map with bridge classifications on. Every road I took toward our destination was classed okay for my Ferret but the Sultans were too heavy. We turned round and doubled back a handful of times before I was given a direct order to just cross the bridge and let a senior rank take the flak if it got out. ---ooo0ooo--- 6. I only once ever saw a named vehicle. In 1976 our "A" Squadron's Saracen ACV bore the legend GARFORTH VC. Google reveals: Charles Ernest Garforth was an English recipient of the Victoria Cross, the highest and most prestigious award for gallantry in the face of the enemy that can be awarded to British and Commonwealth forces. He was 22 years old, and a Corporal in the 15th Hussars (The King's), British Army during the First World War when the following deeds took place for which he was awarded the VC. On 23 August 1914 at Harmingnies, France, Corporal Garforth volunteered to cut wire under fire, which enabled his squadron to escape. On 2 September when under constant fire, he extricated a sergeant who was lying under his dead horse, and carried him to safety. The next day, when another sergeant had lost his horse in a similar way, Corporal Garforth drew off the enemy fire and enabled the sergeant to get away. He later achieved the rank of Sergeant. His Victoria Cross and other medals are displayed at the Imperial War Museum (London, England). ISTR that further investigation which I haven't had time to corroborate here will show that he died in 1976. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted April 9, 2006 Author Share Posted April 9, 2006 Calling.. Degsy Matt Karoshi Weaselnut Nick Army Driver Cara Berni Shopnut Mick W What markings/stencils is on the side of the petrol tank and what height are the letters? Cheers Jack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest matt Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Jack,do you mean the shipping stencil?? if so the vast majority of CCKW's did not have it,and even if they did it would soon get over painted once in theater. I'm afraid I don't have the info on size of the letters etc,and as I say unless you really want to put those markings on they are not a "must have". Matt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karoshi Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 ....and dont forget, if you do decide to use the 1" stencil correct for the shipping markings, the letters were done in water washable YELLOW paint. But the addition of this would assume an invasion vehicle and "date" the other markings to that period. So first, what do you want to be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted April 10, 2006 Author Share Posted April 10, 2006 Thats fine, just wanted to check. It will be marked up as the 56th Signals and as it was built in sept 44 then it will have to be relevant spec...not much good markinig up as a D-Day vehicle :shock: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karoshi Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Shipping stencils were used post invasion but the practice became less important. It would not be "incorrect" but as time went on it became less likely. 56th Signals what? If your vehicle was built late 44, thats going to give you a problem associating it with the 56th at Dewlish. You'll have to decide on vehicle date OR Dewlish for markings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted April 10, 2006 Author Share Posted April 10, 2006 56th Signals what? If your vehicle was built late 44, thats going to give you a problem associating it with the 56th at Dewlish. You'll have to decide on vehicle date OR Dewlish for markings. That is a good point but it may be a trade off as I think that it is important to have 'local' history association as then I can also work in some Dorset history in there as well .........does that make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karoshi Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Yes. the 56th spent very little time at Dewlish, to them it was just a collection point prior to the Normandy kick off. It gives you a very short time-frame. I'd forget about the vehicle date and go with the local history. 23rd May 'till 1st June at Dewlish. Detachment's A, B and C1 only. So your markings are kind of decided for you. That decided you can have a yellow 1" shipping stencil! and as we know the LST they sailed on you could chalk that on too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted April 10, 2006 Author Share Posted April 10, 2006 Yes. the 56th spent very little time at Dewlish, to them it was just a collection point prior to the Normandy kick off. It gives you a very short time-frame. I'd forget about the vehicle date and go with the local history. 23rd May 'till 1st June at Dewlish. Detachment's A, B and C1 only. So your markings are kind of decided for you. That decided you can have a yellow 1" shipping stencil! and as we know the LST they sailed on you could chalk that on too! Thanks mate, wealth of knowledge 8) Will do some research and on that note we know that one of the beach trees that was full of graffiti was felled the other day and ringed up :cry: going to see if I can rescue some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karoshi Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Sorry mate, mislead you, C1 not an option as they marshalled at camp S-1, near Ladock, Taunton. So the choice is Detatchment A (5 trucks 1 trailer) or Detatchment B ( 17 trucks 6 trailers) Both landed Easy Red Beach. B at 1300hrs A at 1600hrs. 6th June 1944. athough "B" was partly delayed until D+1 because of heavy beach fighting The choices get less! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karoshi Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 5 trucks total, 1 officer and 30 Em's, Officer plus 1 = 1 truck. (No jeep or command car attatched.) 29 Em's in other 4 trucks. So at least a crew of 7 then Jack. Sounds like freebee rides for Mods, for like ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted April 10, 2006 Author Share Posted April 10, 2006 So at least a crew of 7 then Jack. Sounds like freebee rides for Mods, for like ever. Yeah, as long as you aren't wearing pistols, because I hate them :twisted: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted April 14, 2006 Author Share Posted April 14, 2006 Detatchment A (5 trucks 1 trailer) Cheers mate. Could you give me the marking for these guys please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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