Replica Weapon Debate

[Marmite!!]

34 vehicles ? simply normal vehicles owned by those arrested or ? were they replica's?

 

 

 

Just civvy vehicles :-D

[Sylvester]

Hi Folks, :-D

 

I'm getting a bit concerned here, :dunno:

I may have missed the point somewhere in all this, but.....Can someone tell me straight where the hell I stand now!! :angry:

I have a De-Ac .30 on my ferret, the gubbins have all been removed including the actual barrel!

In its place I have at my own expence had a machined tube made to replace it! It is also now a Gas Gun! :whistle:

So, it now looks like a real one, inside and out ( Dummy innert clipped rounds in feed plate) and it sounds like the real thing! 8-)

 

Am I now breaking the Law??? :oops2:

 

I wrote to the home office about this issue when it all first started, I recieved a nice little letter from the Office dealing with the issue and they stated ...Then!.. That what I hed was perfectly OK!

Has all this changed so much!!! :redfaced:

 

All the Beast

 

Fred :banana:

[Tony B]

I would say this is covered by 'recreational, military etc. The obvious advice, and like all of us I suppose I say it automatically, treat everything that looks like a firearm as if it is real, and cover well if on the public roads. Would be worth keeping a copy of the letter with it. Most copper's have better things to do, a piece of someone Else's official stationary means someone else's problem.

[Marmite!!]

Hi Folks, :-D

 

I'm getting a bit concerned here, :dunno:

I may have missed the point somewhere in all this, but.....Can someone tell me straight where the hell I stand now!! :angry:

I have a De-Ac .30 on my ferret, the gubbins have all been removed including the actual barrel!

In its place I have at my own expence had a machined tube made to replace it! It is also now a Gas Gun! :whistle:

So, it now looks like a real one, inside and out ( Dummy innert clipped rounds in feed plate) and it sounds like the real thing! 8-)

 

Am I now breaking the Law??? :oops2:

 

I wrote to the home office about this issue when it all first started, I recieved a nice little letter from the Office dealing with the issue and they stated ...Then!.. That what I hed was perfectly OK!

Has all this changed so much!!! :redfaced:

 

All the Beast

 

Fred :banana:

 

 

Fred..

 

deac no problem, status remains unchanged under the VCR Act 2006...

 

Your as gun is a different matter, it's classed as a RIF & the followng applies to lawfully use it.....

 

The Secretary of State makes the following Regulations in exercise of the powers conferred by sections 36, 37 and 38 of the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006(1).

 

Citation, commencement and extent

 

— These Regulations may be cited as the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 (Realistic Imitation Firearms) Regulations 2007 and shall come into force on 2007.

 

These Regulations extend to Great Britain.

 

Interpretation

 

In these regulations—

 

the “2006 Act” means the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006;

 

“permitted event” means a commercial event at which firearms or realistic imitation firearms (or both) are offered for sale or displayed;

 

“insurance” means a contract of insurance or other arrangement made for the purpose of indemnifying the person or persons who hold it; and

 

“permitted activities” means the acting out of military or law enforcement scenarios for the purposes of recreation.

 

Defences to an offence under section 36 of the 2006 Act

 

— It shall be a defence in proceedings for an offence under section 36 of the 2006 Act for the person charged with the offence to show that his conduct was for the purpose only of making the imitation firearm in question available for one or more of the purposes specified in paragraph (2).

 

Those purposes are—

 

the organisation and holding of permitted activities for which public liability insurance is held in relation to liabilities to third parties arising from or in connection with the organisation and holding of those activities;

 

the purposes of display at a permitted event.

 

— The persons described for the purposes of section 37(2)(e) of the 2006 Act are those mentioned in paragraph (2).

 

The persons mentioned in this paragraph are—

 

a person or persons holding public liability insurance in relation to liabilities to third parties arising from or in connection with the organisation and holding of historical re-enactments;

 

two or more persons, at least one of whom holds such public liability insurance.

[Tony B]

:dunno:

[Marmite!!]

:dunno:

 

 

 

Put simply, Fred's driving down the road (or he's already at a show) & a police officer inspects his gun, if it's a deac no problem, show them your deac cert (which you should always carry) you should be on your way...

 

If Fred has a Realistic Imitation Firearm (RIF) which covers all replicas & blank firers unless it is in one of the specified dayglow colours then he could fall foul of the law. He would have to prove that he is a member of a reenactment group (MVT/IMPS don't count) with a minimum of two members of which one of them must hold PLI to cover Historical Reenactment...

 

Until there is some sort of test case it's unclear how the Police themselves are going to interpret the law...

 

There are a few other pitfalls to watch out for...

 

Permitted Events & Permitted Activities

 

 

“permitted event” means a commercial event at which firearms or realistic imitation firearms (or both) are offered for sale or displayed.

 

“permitted activities” means the acting out of military or law enforcement scenarios for the purposes of recreation.

 

 

So in theory Sitting in the High Street with a replica .30cal hanging of a Jeep & collecting for say the Poppy Appeal could land you in trouble as it's not a Permitted Event or Permitted Activity..

[Tony B]

I am a member of a group Goldbeach. We started as an admin group for Normandy 2005. now we do some shows as a group and some as individuals. the PLI covers us , as long as we let the Secretary know so it is official. So what constitutes a 'Reenactment group'? A bunch of us decided to do it, draw up a constituion and membership list get PLI, so voila, were legal I suppose. There is no sort of central registry as with shooting clubs , and no National Body.

[Marmite!!]

I am a member of a group Goldbeach. We started as an admin group for Normandy 2005. now we do some shows as a group and some as individuals. the PLI covers us , as long as we let the Secretary know so it is official. So what constitutes a 'Reenactment group'? A bunch of us decided to do it, draw up a constituion and membership list get PLI, so voila, were legal I suppose. There is no sort of central registry as with shooting clubs , and no National Body.

 

 

That's about it Tony... there is one association that claims to act on behalf of WW2 Reenactors http://www.afra.org.uk/ I know very little about them so can not comment on the benefits of being a member to this organisation...

[Tony B]

Been doing it a long time , and never heard of them :dunno:

[Marmite!!]

Been doing it a long time , and never heard of them :dunno:

 

 

They seems to be one of the main subjects over on the WW2 Forum :coffee2:

[Tony B]

trouble is renactors are a 'independently minded' lot to wit childish and very bitchy at times. I can't see anyone claiming to 'Speak for the movement' getting much support. One reason we formed our own group.

[fv1609]

Just trying to fathom out how far the definition of a replica could be stretched. I hope to resurrect the Mk 1 Shorland after 12 years without showing it. I used to have the perforated outer tube of a .3 Browing. The actual "barrel" inside was just a piece of water pipe. When on the road I would roll a canvas cover over it.

 

A Shorland turret without some sort of gun looks ridiculously impotent. So I was going to fit the canvas cover over a wire support made out of coathanger wire to support the cover.

 

So is this a replica? If so is a roll of canvas the replica or the coathanger? If I walked down the street with a roll of canvas is it still a replica? or if I held the roll of canvas up like aiming a rifle does that make it a replica? If so if I held my umbrella in that fashion does it then become a replica? I'm tempted to mount the umbrella in the turret to support the canvas is that a replica? Perhaps we should have an amnesty to hand over unlicensed umbrellas?

[Marmite!!]

Just trying to fathom out how far the definition of a replica could be stretched. I hope to resurrect the Mk 1 Shorland after 12 years without showing it. I used to have the perforated outer tube of a .3 Browing. The actual "barrel" inside was just a piece of water pipe. When on the road I would roll a canvas cover over it.

 

A Shorland turret without some sort of gun looks ridiculously impotent. So I was going to fit the canvas cover over a wire support made out of coathanger wire to support the cover.

 

So is this a replica? If so is a roll of canvas the replica or the coathanger? If I walked down the street with a roll of canvas is it still a replica? or if I held the roll of canvas up like aiming a rifle does that make it a replica? If so if I held my umbrella in that fashion does it then become a replica? I'm tempted to mount the umbrella in the turret to support the canvas is that a replica? Perhaps we should have an amnesty to hand over unlicensed umbrellas?

 

 

 

Here's your answer Clive... :-D

 

 

Section 38 - Meaning of a Realistic Imitation Firearm

 

 

A realistic imitation firearm means an imitation firearm which -

 

(a) has an appearance that is so realistic as to make it indistinguishable, for all practical

purposes, from a real firearm; and

(b) is neither a de-activated firearm nor itself an antique.

For the purposes of this section, an imitation firearm is not (except by virtue of paragraph (b)

above) to be regarded as distinguishable from a real firearm for any practical purpose if it could

be so distinguished only

(a) by an expert;

(b) on a close examination; or

© as a result of an attempt to load or to fire it.

In determining for the purposes of this section whether an imitation firearm is distinguishable

from a real firearm -

(a) the matters that must be taken into account include any differences between the size,

shape and principal colour of the imitation firearm and the size, shape and colour in

which the real firearm is manufactured; and

(b) the imitation is to be regarded as distinguishable if its size, shape or principal colour

is unrealistic for a real firearm.

[David Ives]

just to make safe after problems with my rif's my christmas present :-D is a new spec de-act slr for the shows so problems sort of sorted

[LeeEnfield]

:roll: Tis a typical government FUDGE UP.................... :whistle:

[Sylvester]

Well... :-D

 

Looks like its not too...Clear Cut then eh! :dunno:

 

However,...I do have a useful 'Get out o Jail' Card that I could play if need be! :whistle:

 

I wonder if they would suspect a close relative of the head of SOCA to be ...A Terorist!! :modpwr:

 

 

All the Beast

 

Fred :tup: :banana: