How long may an MV be laid up?

[LarryH57]

Due to work and other commitments how long may I not drive my Lwt?  what preparations will I ned to carry out?

[john1950]

Check anti freeze or drain. put on axle stands to preserve tyres. Store in a dry place and cover, remove or disconnect battery. Drain fuel tank.

[Adrian Dwyer]

From somewhat bitter experience, and depending on the security of your storage location, think about how to stop opportunistic and greedy mice chewing on everything they might consider tasty (wiring, insulation, upholstery, rubber, etc).  My preference has always been for something with a hefty spring leading to a quick end.  Do, of course, remember how many were set and where you put them: particularly important re: upholstery.

[ruxy]

4 hours ago, john1950 said:

Check anti freeze or drain. put on axle stands to preserve tyres. Store in a dry place and cover, remove or disconnect battery. Drain fuel tank.

Axle Stands - OK  , but also best to jack up chassis also and timber block to take weight off springs  -  esp. front.  It's difficult to find a building that under climatic conditions is always free of condensation.  IMHO  -  sheeting over outside where there is plenty of ventilation is better.

[john1950]

If you want to block chassis it is easiest to put a block between the axle and chassis than have to get a large quantity of timber, unless you have access to chassis stands. Independent suspension vehicles need a different approach. Any vehicle that is laid up inside or outside in these days of intense sunlight it is advisable to substantially reduce the tyre pressure.

Edited August 5, 2023 by john1950

[utt61]

When parking up my Land-Rovers for any substantial time I block between bump-stops and axles to relieve the springs and put blocks or stands under the axles to relieve the tyres. This also means that it is easy once in a while to rotate the transmission to keep it all oily.

If rodents are likely put one or more ultrasonic repellent devices in and under the vehicle (available from the likes of Amazon in battery or mains versions), they really do seem to work.

The biggest problem now seems to be what to do about the fuel. With diesel I'd put biocide in and leave it fuelled up, but petrol is the kicker now it has ethanol. The best advice seems to be to drain the fuel, run the engine till the carb is dry, then put a quantity of Aspen (or similar) chainsaw fuel (not two-stroke though), prime the system and run for a few minutes. This way there should be no ethanol left in the system to dissolve it.

Edited August 6, 2023 by utt61

[andym]

On 8/5/2023 at 9:15 PM, john1950 said:

If you want to block chassis it is easiest to put a block between the axle and chassis than have to get a large quantity of timber, unless you have access to chassis stands. Independent suspension vehicles need a different approach. Any vehicle that is laid up inside or outside in these days of intense sunlight it is advisable to substantially reduce the tyre pressure.

Keep the tyres out of daylight, regardless.

Andy

[osiford]

If you're going to lay it up for more than a few months, in addition to the previous comments, I'd expect problems with the brake/clutch hydraulic systems. Old fluid will have water in it, which will mean cylinders may corrode, and seize, especially cast iron ones. This can happen in just a couple of months, as recent experience has shown! I'd at least flush through with fresh fluid, which will be water free, to start with at least. Depending on how much work you are prepared to do, and if storage will be for extended period, it may be worth stripping dust boots off cylinders, and packing with rubber grease, to try to keep corrosion down. If you can, get in and work the brake/clutch pedals once in a while, to keep it all free. Also, don't park it with hand brake on, as shoes tend to stick to drums. As for sticking clutches......

[ploughman]

During my time in the RE's Airfield Repair Sqns we used to rotate our large stock of plant vehicles.

For this we installed vehicles into a large tailor made rubber bag, fitted dehumidifier and left it alone for up to 7 years that I know of.

Prior to this each vehicle was fully serviced, painted if required, batteries removed and stored, sharp edges padded, diesel vehicles fully fueled, petrol vehicles drained, vehicle driven onto insulated hard standing and mounted on axle stands then bag fitted and sealed.

Now I do know that the Diesel fuel may no longer be suitable for long term storage, but have all the Hydraulics, Brakes, Gearbox oils etc all been made unsuitable as well?

[ploughman]

Found a couple of photos.

Michigan bucket loader at RAF Bruggen in 1982.

Note as well, at rear right in first photo, a bagged Lacre Road sweeper, and the backend of an Aveling Barford tipper at rear left in 2nd photo.

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by ploughman

[rog8811]

I worked on the design of those butyl covers, and made the hot bonding machines to assemble them.

I seem to recall that the final version had the vehicle driven onto a sheet of butyl, a tubular frame, sort of large conduit, with a slot in the top was assembled around it, the bottom sheet was pushed into the slot all around.

The cover had a tube formed around the base that was also pushed into the slot then inflated, this sealed it all up, the cover was then vacuumed down around the vehicle.

[teletech]

Here's a link to a MOD study on storing CVR(T) that showed a lot of efficacy in VpCI materials at inhibiting rust and degradation.

https://www.cortecvci.com/Publications/Papers/MoD-cleared-trial-report.pdf

Otherwise, the general advice so for looks very good.  It's worth noting that lead-acid batteries self-discharge at a rate of 4-8%/month and any significant discharge will cause sulfation of the plates, so a battery tending charger is very helpful in preventing this.  It can be mains-based or solar.

[ploughman]

9 hours ago, rog8811 said:

I worked on the design of those butyl covers, and made the hot bonding machines to assemble them.

I seem to recall that the final version had the vehicle driven onto a sheet of butyl, a tubular frame, sort of large conduit, with a slot in the top was assembled around it, the bottom sheet was pushed into the slot all around.

The cover had a tube formed around the base that was also pushed into the slot then inflated, this sealed it all up, the cover was then vacuumed down around the vehicle.

The covers we used, zipped the top to the bottom. No tubes used.

A 25mm ply board with a 25mm layer of expanded polystyrene on the upper face was laid down on the ground.

Then the bag bottom was aid followed by another 25mm ply board with polystyrene on the lower face sandwiching the bag  material.

I seem to recall 2 manufacturers were used for the bags. cant recall the names though.

Any repairs were done by REME techs from Villich workshops.

[rog8811]

 

14 hours ago, ploughman said:

I seem to recall 2 manufacturers were used for the bags. cant recall the names though.

It is a long time ago and I worked with a lot of rubber companies on various military projects, including overboots for germ warfare, flexible bulk fuel storage bladders and hovercraft skirts, maybe one of these companies will ring a bell?

BTR, Butyl products, Avon industrial polymers.

[LarryH57]

Guys, thanks for all the info on laying up a vehicle. To be honest it seems quite involved, and so I have made a concious effort to 'escape all other commitments' and use the Lwt more often. Amazingly it fired up first time and I drove it on the road again, since February.  Luckily it is classed as Historic, so is ULEZ exempt and has lasted longer than ALL the cars, I have ever owned.

[Adrian Dwyer]

1 hour ago, LarryH57 said:

Guys, thanks for all the info on laying up a vehicle. To be honest it seems quite involved, and so I have made a concious effort to 'escape all other commitments' and use the Lwt more often. Amazingly it fired up first time and I drove it on the road again, since February.  Luckily it is classed as Historic, so is ULEZ exempt and has lasted longer than ALL the cars, I have ever owned.

Result!

[teletech]

8 hours ago, LarryH57 said:

Guys, thanks for all the info on laying up a vehicle. To be honest it seems quite involved, and so I have made a concious effort to 'escape all other commitments' and use the Lwt more often. Amazingly it fired up first time and I drove it on the road again, since February.  Luckily it is classed as Historic, so is ULEZ exempt and has lasted longer than ALL the cars, I have ever owned.

Well, you said long-term storage and I'm afraid we sort of went for it.  As long as you run it every few months you really don't need to worry about anything but bais-ply tyres and add some fuel stabilizer.

[LarryH57]

And what stabalizer do you recommend for the E5 petrol it uses?

[teletech]

9 minutes ago, LarryH57 said:

And what stabalizer do you recommend for the E5 petrol it uses?

Well, this fellow did some testing and the results didn't look encouraging at all.   Better than nothing in some cases.  Using water to saturate the alcohol and cause it to settle out, then drain out the bottom would be better practice.

[LarryH57]

I guess adding water, to my petrol tank is going to be too risky for a guy like me, wondering if thats all the water coming out or is it still watery petrol, and suddenly I have drained the tank?

I know there was a video on here from YouTube showing how to remove the ethanol from petrol using a large clear plastic container, circa 5 gallons but trying to do the same in a non see through LR fuel tank is risky.

I seem to remember the water could be coloured/died, so that once all the colour has gone, its just petrol?

[teletech]

It's pretty easy to see and smell the change as you go from water to fuel, plus you want to drain into a pan anyway so if you do drain some petrol you can just pour it off the top.

I do recommend adding a tap so you can drain it slowly rather than having to remove a plug and then put it back in while things are draining.

Obviously it's more convenient and safer to do the separation before even adding the fuel to the vehicle, then you can either drain out the water at the bottom or use an electric pump or siphon to pull the de-watered fuel off the top of the separation vessel.

It is worth remembering of course that the alcohol is an octane booster, so removing it will hurt your octane rating, but if you are using the resulting petrol in a military vehicle with a compressing ratio of ~7:1, it's not going to matter.