Ban on Petrol?

[bigduke6]

I remember reading an article regarding the  banning of fossil fuel powered vehicles in Denmark, the Danish government ( same as many other nation governments) wanted to plough ahead a lot earlier than most other countries, but lucky for them there was someone with intelligence, who said “ we’re will we get the equivalent of the tax we charge on the fuel, the oil etc for the said vehicle’s. 
Idea was binned as quick as the idea, Petrol is a by product as previously said, but it won’t just end, fossil fuel vehicles will go on and on , until fuel is no longer made, or  Parts runout, but am sure the vehicle manufacturers of today are ploughing millions into a bio fuel, Brazil have been making Alcohol based fuel for a long time. 
 

I bought an FFR Landrover Lightweight few months back, needs work but previous owner put in a 2.5 NA Diesel ( 19J engine) which I need to repair, not one for the rivet counters but will run it on veg oil, Have run a few Diesel engine cars on it before.

Unfortunately can’t run the Matchless, BSA or Enfield on veg oil, but I do know how to make a good mash …….

[ruxy]

12 hours ago, bigduke6 said:

I remember reading an article regarding the  banning of fossil fuel powered vehicles in Denmark, the Danish government ( same as many other nation governments) wanted to plough ahead a lot earlier than most other countries, but lucky for them there was someone with intelligence, who said “ we’re will we get the equivalent of the tax we charge on the fuel, the oil etc for the said vehicle’s. 
Idea was binned as quick as the idea, Petrol is a by product as previously said, but it won’t just end, fossil fuel vehicles will go on and on , until fuel is no longer made, or  Parts runout, but am sure the vehicle manufacturers of today are ploughing millions into a bio fuel, Brazil have been making Alcohol based fuel for a long time. 
 

I bought an FFR Landrover Lightweight few months back, needs work but previous owner put in a 2.5 NA Diesel ( 19J engine) which I need to repair, not one for the rivet counters but will run it on veg oil, Have run a few Diesel engine cars on it before.

Unfortunately can’t run the Matchless, BSA or Enfield on veg oil, but I do know how to make a good mash …….

WW2  Germany & Denmark were using potato schnapps.   You don't see supermarket trollies full of MAZOLA like you did a few years ago - the £ was jacked up.

So - the local Post Office (inc. collections & garaging)  re-located in recent years needs another out of town relocation with more parking space.  A smallish battery electric fleet arrived and charging points installed, now the diesel vans (rural delivery up valley) are overnight parked in the B&Q car park and I am reliably informed that B&Q is £ charging the PO  £14,000 p.a. fee.  Of course the County Councils are building new garaging complete with charging facility. I am OK because I have 1/4 acre parking if ever I decide on a high Amp charge facility.  You can't have people tripping on cables across streets , I suppose embed in snow/ice that would be fine.  I have heard of fanciful ideas for street cableless charging - like WiFi  - possibly I have missed something - tram type street catenary wires possibly.  I can't see streets of town houses having swing-jibs with concertina cables bolted on the front of every house as the only infrastructure.  Time will tell,  I don't think there is anything in the pipeline for the vast majority of car owners.

[ruxy]

AND  -  my local postmen tell me they are banned fron turning the van radio on or recharging their mobiles from the van  !

[Mk3iain]

7 minutes ago, ruxy said:

WW2  Germany & Denmark were using potato schnapps.   You don't see supermarket trollies full of MAZOLA like you did a few years ago - the £ was jacked up.

So - the local Post Office (inc. collections & garaging)  re-located in recent years needs another out of town relocation with more parking space.  A smallish battery electric fleet arrived and charging points installed, now the diesel vans (rural delivery up valley) are overnight parked in the B&Q car park and I am reliably informed that B&Q is £ charging the PO  £14,000 p.a. fee.  Of course the County Councils are building new garaging complete with charging facility. I am OK because I have 1/4 acre parking if ever I decide on a high Amp charge facility.  You can't have people tripping on cables across streets , I suppose embed in snow/ice that would be fine.  I have heard of fanciful ideas for street cableless charging - like WiFi  - possibly I have missed something - tram type street catenary wires possibly.  I can't see streets of town houses having swing-jibs with concertina cables bolted on the front of every house as the only infrastructure.  Time will tell,  I don't think there is anything in the pipeline for the vast majority of car owners.

You can bet no answer to this will be cheap and the tax gap will be filled somehow.  But why are we planning to go electric everything ? Because of lots of powerful lobyists that will cash in on it.   There are alternatives, such as hydrogen combustion.  Ask JCB they have developed from scratch a hydrogen engine as electric power is not viable in heavy plant etc.

[ruxy]

Volvo was supposedly leading for Euro on bioDME for slightly modified diesel engines  - the future before hydrogen  ?

[LarryH57]

Dear HMVF members,

Thanks for your posts on alternative fuel sources for my Lwt and also for how things were 100 years ago.

There might be hope yet of getting a WW2 Jeep to the 100th Anniversary of D-Day parade, albeit with a pre-announced health warning for spectators and the man walking in front with a red flag!

For those of you who like me believe in 'Man Made Global Harming' I will leave you with this!

 

[matchlesswdg3]

Well that's all right, then.  

[david1212]

On 9/25/2023 at 10:17 AM, Mk3iain said:

You can bet no answer to this will be cheap and the tax gap will be filled somehow.  But why are we planning to go electric everything ? Because of lots of powerful lobyists that will cash in on it.   There are alternatives, such as hydrogen combustion.  Ask JCB they have developed from scratch a hydrogen engine as electric power is not viable in heavy plant etc.

For hydrogen the first issue is the production, distribution and storage in the quantities required. If the energy source is not green or using a fossil there not is a step reduction in the CO2 and other pollutants produced compared to running a diesel engine one source of CO2 is simply being swapped for another. The second issue is the cost.

[LarryH57]

And also, as various scientists have said, while hiding in case of reprisals, is that Co2, is not a pollutant.

[ruxy]

After much heat and no light,  the   truth is starting to leak out.

Sat.Sept. 30th  2023   The TIMES  Page 14  a article by  Chris. Smyth  Witehall Editor.

BLUEPRINT FOR NETWORK OF SUPER (4000,000 volt)  PYLONS ACROSS NATION  (the existing National Grid will just slide into obscurity),  I hope to get a clipping posted here for all to read this week.

Basically :-

The new network of super pylons is to be 'fast tracked' under "Planning Reforms"  , residents ability to block the rapid development  of "motorways of power"  is set to be curtailed after Rishi Sunak was told the grid capacity has to double to transport energy  from offshore wind, solar  farms.  The PM bemoans  the "unnaceptable" 14 years it can take to project build , and is planning to halve that figure through reforms to the planning process.   No wonder it seems that HS2 is to be chopped back.

-----------------------

Obviously car batteries and charging facilities will improve over the years, however as I see it - to lay new power cables (copper or aluminium) and have a pedestal charge point (something like a parking coin meter)  daisy chained on both sides of every street - in front of every house,  is a total non-starter (pardon the pun)  - something new is yet to be invented !

[ruxy]

errata   for  4000,000 volt (grid)  - correctly read  400,000 volts.

[Mk3iain]

15 hours ago, david1212 said:

For hydrogen the first issue is the production, distribution and storage in the quantities required. If the energy source is not green or using a fossil there not is a step reduction in the CO2 and other pollutants produced compared to running a diesel engine one source of CO2 is simply being swapped for another. The second issue is the cost.

Much of which is already moving on.  Ok for hydrogen read green hydrogen. We already see hydrogen powered buses and even ships fueled by (green and some blue for the time being) ammonia. etc  Costs are coming down and infrastrcture is evolving and planned by major operators and producers.

 Much of this is well on the way and as I stated is just an example of how we do not have to be totaly reliant on  ( partly green) electricity and (not so green)  batteries.

Edited October 2, 2023 by Mk3iain

[matchlesswdg3]

"BLUEPRINT FOR NETWORK OF SUPER (4000,000 volt) ".  And of course, Ruxy, they have to have quite a lot of juice to stuff down those "motorways"!  As we are only just about keeping up with existing demand for electricity and increased demand by virtue of increased population, I am not sure how they are going to generate sufficient to offset the HUGE amount of power we currently access from fossil fuels..........and Government has no plan either - that makes any sense to engineers.  There will be a very big energy gap if things carry on as they are - and that gap will be filled by Joe Public being forced to rely on public transport - when and where they can get it, and having homes heated by things like the much vaunted heat pump - that inconveniently makes no economic or practical sense for 85% of households - ie we will be freezing our nuts off - which makes global warming seem quite attractive!

[ruxy]

It looks like Greenergy have aero fuels sorted  :-

https://www.greenergy.com/greenergy-enters-the-sustainable-aviation-fuel-market-with-n

Greenergy seemed to come from nowhere - IIRC they have fuel station interests and were/are the biggest importer of ethanol to UK.

[bigduke6]

It’s an interesting thread, Regarding Hydrogen , one of the boiler houses we look after is for a major manufacturer of cleaning products. 
Hydrogen trials were conducted last year, it worked quite well, but expensive…….couple of issues regarding the Generators from the CHP plant but not the running of the engine,  more the sensor side etc.

The idea was to use shipped in Hydrogen and use the natural gas pipe line for other commercial sites. 

Moral of the story , is it’s big commercial sites , like hospital and manufacturing boiler houses etc that will be first on the agenda, the amount of nasties these pump out the Chimneys is colossal, I’m not sure on the amount of gas the Engines in one hospital uses but will find out, these are part of the CHP ( combined heat and power) the engines power generators and feed back to the grid, the waste heat ( exhaust ) is passed through a waste heat boiler, producing steam along with the other duel fuel powered boilers ( x3) 

Only after coming ashore from over 30 years as an Engineer in the Merchant Navy and working in the Energy Sector  , did I realise the amount of industry that relies on industrial boilers, if you drive around or pass an industrial site look for chimneys ( lot smaller now than conventional brick built ones) but there everywhere. 
 

although a lot of boilers have been converted or renewed to LTHW they still use hell of a lot of Gas.

One hospital site in Lancashire is now looking at a fair size bit of land with the possibility of a solar farm and Ground source heat pumps to replace the traditional boiler house and CHP plant……

So generally speaking, fossil fuel vehicles are small fry compared to industry. 
 

 

[ruxy]

Times article from  Sat.  30/9/23

[bigduke6]

The fast track could explain the felling of the Sycamore at Hadrians wall ?? 
 

“ Unfortunately Prime Minister, there’s a very old Sycamore tree right we’re we plan to place the the first pylon” 

“well cut it down man and blame it on some thugs”

2 hours ago, ruxy said:

Times article from  Sat.  30/9/23