Ex military fuel/oil can?

[polecat paul]

I'm having a sort out of my barn as we will be selling up and moving and I came across this ex military fuel/oil can not sure of the age or what it did hold, does anybody know? 

[LarryH57]

It is a typical 'flimsy' used before the British Army captured Jerry cans in North Africa and started using them and making our own.

[redbomb]

Mr Paul,

I would like to disagree with Mr Larry's answer, in that this is not a "flimsy" but rather a "Toucan".  Please understand that I am in America and have limited access to English Gas and Oil references.  However the flimsy was a 4 (Imperial) gallon, primarily single use tin that was a miserable sort of gasoline can.  There is also a heavy gage version that often called a flimsy but may in-fact have another name or none at all (often stamped MT80).  As for this can, I would consider more observation.  The maker and year is usually embossed on the bottom, such as:FF&S Ltd 39.  War Dept contract cans had a W^D and year (1944) embossed on the top.  Your can has indications of being from The Great War.  Toucans (two gallon (Imperial) cans) were made as early as 1906 for the civil market that I know of.  During the war,  civil cans were over painted red or khaki and stamped on the handle with W^D and a 2 diget year; 18.  Many variations of the embossings and stampings have been noted in the collector community.   In summery, check the bottom for a date, and if none give consideration of this being used in WW1 and perhaps carried over to WW2.  The painted stencil on the side of the cans looks to be an oil type or weight designation.  Would be glad to offer more thoughts if requested.  Cheers, Rick

bombmuseum@hotmail.com

[Ron]

It looks like a 1 gall oil can, the screw cap type would indicate WW2 period to me and as mentioned by Rick would usually be date stamped on the bottom. Here are my two "Canadian" cans.

The last picture is my genuine 1940 4 gall "Flimsy"  Ron

[Great War truck]

The angle of the filler suggests WW2 or later. Date usually on the bottom. WW1 cans should have the date and makers name on the ends of the handle. Like this one.

Edited January 15, 2022 by Great War truck

[Great War truck]

[LarryH57]

Dear Ron,

What is it about your the screw cap types on your WW2 cans that is different to the one that Great War Truck posted below your post?

Thanks Larry

[Ron]

Nothing that I can see Larry. My comment was to differentiate between a WW2 1 gallon oil can and a post war can. The post war can is quite similar but had a cheaper tin screw cap.  Ron 

[ruxy]

 

Last year I failed to get this can positively identified , the cap may/may not be original  ?     Reading this Jan 2022 thread - I need to take a better look at end of handle etc. for any other marks.

         Ron  , I have seen WW2 photographs of flimsy , such as re-fueling aircraft in North Africa desert so aware of the shape/size - can you explain how the hole was sealed - was it some sort of rip-off cap that was then disposed of  ?

[Ron]

Yes ruxy the cap was like a ring pull. I thought the cap was crimped somehow, but I've been told that they were soldered on. It would be interesting to know for sure though. 

I've also read that there was an average percent of lost fuel per mile during transit by lorries due to how easily they got damaged.. I think it was something like 1% per mile?    Ron 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Ron

[Ron]

PS I've also got this other 4 gall can that is the same shape as a flimsy but much thicker gauge of steel. Not sure what they were used for....Water?  Ron

[ruxy]

21 hours ago, Ron said:

Yes ruxy the cap was like a ring pull. I thought the cap was crimped somehow, but I've been told that they were soldered on. It would be interesting to know for sure though. 

I've also read that there was an average percent of lost fuel per mile during transit by lorries due to how easily they got damaged.. I think it was something like 1% per mile?    Ron 

The cap / seal has always been a mystery to me, solder would be as good as the rest of the can - don't know how it would be possible without some heat being near - with container full of petrol  ?

Also - as you show , it would not always be possible to empty the can , hardly sound to leave with some petrol in ,  possibly it was these dregs poured on a chopped flimsy filled with sand for a brew-up ?

[Ron]

Yes any soldering would have to be done with an iron....Not a flame. Ron

[Mike C]

Gents,

Not sure the Flimsy had a cap as such - just a repeat of the same pattern as the other 3 corners, with the top run onto the body by a rolled top edge wheel tool after filling, so no solder, and no hot copper iron against the exposed fuel. The top edge could then, if needed, be safely soldered with a copper iron, acid flux and a solder stick once the lid was in place. Do surviving examples show the top edge to be soldered or not?

I understand that a curved pourer with a sharp, pointed bottom edge was available to punch the hole for pouring, but was rarely used for pouring, just for punching the hole.  The idea was to use the pourer tip to punch a small hole in one corner, then punch through the opposite corner to pour.

In my interviews with WW2 veterans, a transport sgt with an Aust field regiment who served in North Africa said they always carried Italian bayonets with them in the trucks, to punch the holes in the fuel cans. No mention of a soldered/removable cap.

Mike

[Ron]

Mike I've just taken some close ups of mine. The complete top is soldered on, the solder is dripping down from the joint. There is a definite ridge where the cap was with no sign of a repeat pressing as the other three corners and no sign of solder. So it's my guess that the cap was just pressed in..... I'd like to think that the lads and lasses that were soldering thousands of these, were doing them before they were filled. 

I have a friend overseas who has an unopened (still full of fuel) Flimsy. here is the cap, and some that were found abandoned in the desert. 

I'd say a tool like a bayonet would be ideal to rip the cap out and puncture the opposite corner. Ron

[Mike C]

Thanks Ron, that solves it - I stand corrected and have learnt something new in the process.

Mike

 

[ruxy]

So - they were little better than a Golden Syrup tin lid - no wonder the % loss was so high.    Quantity of fuel/shape volume would be a little better than a Jerrycan. 

[MatchFuzee]

Stacked in pallets on cargo ships, the weight of the top layers simply crushed those below, resulting in fuel losses of up to 40 percent, and making unloading the intact containers extremely hazardous with thousands of gallons of petrol sloshing around in the bilges and the fumes powerful enough to render seamen unconscious, not to mention the danger of fire or explosion.

From:-

https://www.exploringoverland.com/overland-tech-travel/2012/8/17/irreducible-imperfection-the-flimsy.html

[fv1609]

Here is part of an article on petrol supply by Brigadier FS Clover CBE that was published in The Army Quarterly April 1945

[Richard Farrant]

5 hours ago, MatchFuzee said:

https://www.exploringoverland.com/overland-tech-travel/2012/8/17/irreducible-imperfection-the-flimsy.html

This quote has errors in it, they refer to the 4 gallon tins as POW (Petrol, oil, water), which is incorrect, the POW can was the 2 gallon standard can which was introduced just after the start of motoring in Britain. The army were still using them post war.. I still use one which is about 85 years old for my mower petrol.

[10FM68]

Note also the correct spelling of Jerrican!

[ruxy]

On 1/18/2022 at 6:01 AM, Ron said:

Mike I've just taken some close ups of mine. The complete top is soldered on, the solder is dripping down from the joint. There is a definite ridge where the cap was with no sign of a repeat pressing as the other three corners and no sign of solder. So it's my guess that the cap was just pressed in..... I'd like to think that the lads and lasses that were soldering thousands of these, were doing them before they were filled. 

I have a friend overseas who has an unopened (still full of fuel) Flimsy. here is the cap, and some that were found abandoned in the desert. 

I'd say a tool like a bayonet would be ideal to rip the cap out and puncture the opposite corner. Ron

For that purpose a bayonet would be fine by me - but it would have to be one made of 'non-sparking' such as brass or bronze.

[Mike C]

Here's the Australian take on the spelling:  The AIF Middle East HQ issued Routine Order RO163 as follows: 'German Type Returnable Containers: 20 litre captured German petrol containers of the pressed and welded type, with hinged quick acting cap, will in future be referred to, for the sake of brevity, as JERRICANS. 

RO467, issued 13 August 1942: Jerricans, max issue per vehicle: Lorries 3, light vehicles and cars: 2.

There are also a few ROs in late 1942 concerning returning stocks for re-issue on a priority basis - apparently not enough captured ones to go around.

Mike

 

 

 

 

[Ron]

And now a friend has sent me pictures of the carboard boxes used for protecting the Flimsy's in air transport. And surprisingly a surviving box. Ron 

[79x100]

3 hours ago, Ron said:

And now a friend has sent me pictures of the carboard boxes used for protecting the Flimsy's in air transport. And surprisingly a surviving box. Ron 

'Petrol in a box'...Takes me back to seventies pubs serving 'Soup in a basket' 🙂