What transporter is this?

[No Signals]

Being as such stuff is outside my experience I thought I'd ask on here.  It is a Sherman being pulled by a Diamond T but what make of trailer is it likely to be? 1948 is the date of the photo.

[john1950]

I think Diamond Ts came originaly with a Rogers trailer, then later Crane and Dyson trailers as well.

[wally dugan]

The  forty ton trailers made by RODGERS CRANE and DYSON were all made to the same design if the photograph is indeed dated 1948 you can rule out the 50 ton DYSON because it did not come into service until 1951 unfortunately  the photo is not very clear

[David Herbert]

Looks to me that the Sherman has a bulldozer blade mounted and has been loaded backwards.

David

[No Signals]

I found another slightly different angle with better focus and contrast.  So yes David it does appear to have a dozer blade.  The date is 18/05/ 1948 so very nearly its 72nd birthday!  Thanks gents for the input regarding its identity.

[john1950]

This trailer appears to have 4 axles with a tappered profile to the bed, which would put it in the 50 ton Dyson range. I think the profile of the towing unit is wrong for a Diamond T, I think the front axle overhang is to long. I now duck behind the nearest solid structure.

Edited May 13, 2020 by john1950
addition

[David Herbert]

How about Mack NO2 as the tractor ?

David

[No Signals]

Yes John and David, it does appear that my amateur assumption regarding the i.d. of the towing vehicle is likely wrong.  The Mack does look like a promising candidate.   Going by the date of the photo, which is very accurate, the 50ton  Dyson can't be a candidate for the trailer if what Wally says about their 1951 introduction is correct. (Not doubting that).

[wally dugan]

l think l have the answer   small number of the new fifty ton DYSON TRAILERS were in GERMANY for use with the new centurion and before been issued   generally 1950/51 these carrying  numbers in the YL SERIES also there were trials of the ELLIOT and GARROOD 80 ton trailer going on in conjuction

[cosrec]

1 hour ago, john1950 said:

This trailer appears to have 4 axles with a tappered profile to the bed, which would put it in the 50 ton Dyson range. I think the profile of the towing unit is wrong for a Diamond T, I think the front axle overhang is to long. I now duck behind the nearest solid structure.

100% that truck is not a diamond T indeed if i would go for Antar i question the date 

 

[cosrec]

22 minutes ago, wally dugan said:

l think l have the answer   small number of the new fifty ton DYSON TRAILERS were in GERMANY for use with the new centurion and before been issued   generally 1950/51 these carrying  numbers in the YL SERIES also there were trials of the ELLIOT and GARROOD 80 ton trailer going on in conjuction

think you will agree its an antar its the date thats wrong

 

[No Signals]

Sorry Crosrec, the date is not wrong.

 

[Richard Farrant]

1 hour ago, David Herbert said:

How about Mack NO2 as the tractor ?

David

I agree with it being a Mack, the clue is the front axle set back. The trailer looks like it has 4 axles.

[wally dugan]

I will not make a judgement  on the tractor unit as the picture is unclear if the photo is before 1951 it is not a ANTAR if its after then it could be l leave that  to others 

[No Signals]

For those who are interested, the original can be found on Britain from Above -

EAW015735 ENGLAND (1948). The town and River Ouse, Selby, from the west, 1948

http://britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/EAW015735

Edited May 14, 2020 by No Signals

[wally dugan]

That makes sense  because BARLOW near SELBY was the one of the royal ordinance depots were armoured vehicles were held  so it could have been there

[john1950]

Looking at the pictures until my eyes hurt, I wonder if in the second picture the prime mover is passing something giving the appearance of a longer nose. In the first picture a D.T is the most obvious candidate. Possibly a 981 with the winch rollers in the front bumper. Oh for a better picture. Possibly the scale model makers could take a relative pic. Or a real one even better. Physical size and date, of even a prototype puts an Antar out I think. They could be different vehicles in a convoy.

Edited May 14, 2020 by john1950
addition

[No Signals]

1 hour ago, john1950 said:

Looking at the pictures until my eyes hurt, I wonder if in the second picture the prime mover is passing something giving the appearance of a longer nose. In the first picture a D.T is the most obvious candidate. Possibly a 981 with the winch rollers in the front bumper. Oh for a better picture. Possibly the scale model makers could take a relative pic. Or a real one even better. Physical size and date, of even a prototype puts an Antar out I think. They could be different vehicles in a convoy.

Hmm, an interesting observation regarding the prime mover passing something.  It possibly might be something passing behind it, as the pair of photos show the assembly is parked up.  But in fairness there doesn't appear to be any candidates visible in the first shot, which could only have been taken a matter of 'flying moments' before the second.  Again the photos also rule out a convoy, sorry 🙂

Edited May 14, 2020 by No Signals

[john1950]

Just trying to come up with plausible alternatives. It may just be an optical illusion creating the difference. Going around the known suspects I now keep coming back to a 4 axle 32 wheel 50 ton Dyson loaded with a Sherman Dozer hauled by the usual suspect.   

Edited May 14, 2020 by john1950
correction addition

[john1950]

Greyhound32122 is renovating a Diamond T ballast tractor. Sandstone project are renovating a DiamondT and Rogers trailer to go with there Sherman 1V. There is also a Rogers trailer being renovated after being retrieved from a scrapyard on Malta. When things return to some sembalance of normality I would think the ones at present in there lairs will put in an appearance in the U.K. I wonder if there was a good outcome for the trailer in a Quarry that the owner could not be found for? Another question did the military run any Federal prime mowers in the U.K. as they were supplied under lend lease and have more front overhang.

Edited May 16, 2020 by john1950
addition

[cosrec]

couple of more suggestions. How about Scammell 100 or one of those  six wheeler Guy artillery tractors

 

 

[David Herbert]

Sorry but the R100 has a rear body that is integral with the cab and has a hard top that doesn't come off. The Guy is much too small to pull that load. I still think that it is a Mack NO2.

This would be so much easier with a clear photo but then we would miss out on the debate.

David

[XS650]

The short 'tent' on the back is so typical Diamond T .

[the DT guy]

that's a rag top 980/981 with a 50ton dyson. 2nd pic gives the trailer away and i agree probably one of the pre production models as it doesn't appear to have the large A frame sticking out the front of the bed which was used for chaining down and supporting the towing A frame. 

the truck can't be mack as macks had a conventional cargo body which from pic 2 it has the typical slab sided garwood box which only the T's had and stands out being shorter than the macks body, with the typical dog house on top which macks didn't have. some have talked about the nose and you'd be surprised how much bonnet,rad & bumper there is beyond the front axle.

not sure when macks were pushed out of service but i would think by 1948 the macks must have been nearly gone??      

i'll let everyone make their own minds but 100% 50 ton rogers (prototype??) with DT 980/981, have started restoring my Rogers so will start a new thread on that soon.

regards sam    

[john1950]

Ah ha, a vehicle type owner has broken cover. Also left a teaser about a forthcoming restoration thread.