question Water sealing coating

[thedawnpatrol]

Having removed the water jacket panel from my MCC 6 cylinder engine, like always it looked rusty on the inside, I have blasted it clean and though there are no obvious pin holes, it is slightly pitted.

So what I am considering is painting the inside (wet side) of the panel with something like wax oil ?

Can you recommend anything on the market that would seal the steel, and give a protective layer that would also stand up to hot water temperature ?

 

Thanks

 

Jules

[wally dugan]

JULES l would not be happy using wax oil in the cooling system because of the effect of it been in contact with hot water and the chance of it clogging the radiator core when it became hot I have used the hot dipping galvanizing method on parts like this in the past as it lasts longer than using paint

 

REGARDS WALLY

[Richard Farrant]

JULES l would not be happy using wax oil in the cooling system because of the effect of it been in contact with hot water and the chance of it clogging the radiator core when it became hot I have used the hot dipping galvanizing method on parts like this in the past as it lasts longer than using paint

 

REGARDS WALLY

 

I agree that wax oil is not a good idea and I do not think you could rely on it doing its job in that environment. I have reservations on hot dip galvanising as it can distort thin metal. Another idea, which still involves a little heat, but controllable, is to tin the inside with solder.

[wally dugan]

JULES l would not be happy using wax oil in the cooling system because of the effect of it been in contact with hot water and the chance of it clogging the radiator core when it became hot I have used the hot dipping galvanizing method on parts like this in the past as it lasts longer than using paint

 

REGARDS WALLY

[thedawnpatrol]

Thanks Wally & Richard,

 

Yes, your right, wax oil is probably not the. Best idea.

 

Tinning it might be the best, though I suspect this will be as expensive as having a new panel made ?

 

Thanks chaps

 

Jules

[Jerrykins]

R-R used to totally immerse B & K range grey iron c/case castings in paint and bake the c/case before machining. I recall the process was called S O, no idea what it stood for. The main purpose was to safely seal any residual casting sand in place. It was very effective, nothing seemed to remove the paint, which was a sort of silvery colour.

 

For your c/case, assuming it's clean, do nothing other than use traditional Bluecol antifreeze at a 50/50% mix, as it contains adequate inhibitors that will prevent further corrosion.

 

If you're determined to paint the internal coolant c/case area then you'll need a bath full of appropriate paint or a specialist contractor, both won't come cheap!

 

If the MCC engine is rusty internally I'd check if it has a water tube running in the c/case from the water pump distributing coolant to each exhaust valve. Nasty things, a sort of zinc plated tin tube and very important to keep the exhaust valves cool on a side valve engine.

 

Good luck. Jerry

[Sean N]

I think as Richard and Wally have already said, any impermanent coating such as a wax runs the risk of gradually melting/ becoming dislodged and finding its way to places you don't want it.

 

Would a baked coating / galvanising / solder risk the block moving, perhaps not only due to heat distortion but relieving any residual stress?

 

As Jerry says a good quality antifreeze in the correct proportions should contain corrosion inhibitors which will prevent further corrosion, but if you're concerned about existing corrosion / pinholes what about some type of permanent two pack epoxy coating? I'd be surprised if there isn't something available for industry which will do the job.

[Hoseman]

What about galvanised dipping or powder coating, bakes hard and impervious to most heat and corrosives!

[Richard Farrant]

Would a baked coating / galvanising / solder risk the block moving, perhaps not only due to heat distortion but relieving any residual stress?

 

 

 

Hi Sean,

When I said tinning with solder, I was meaning the pressed steel side cover which was the cause of concern by Jules.

 

Another idea, recently I was making enquiries regarding stitching a badly cracked cyl block, the specialist explained to me that after it is done he pumps a ceramic sealer through the block to coat it in side. Maybe there is a sealer like this that can be applied to corroded components such as side covers, to seal them. I think paints are only alright if you can be sure rust is not going to get back in to the metal and lift a paint coating off. Other way is to make a new cover, the Morris Commercial 4 cyl engines are prone to perforating the side covers.

[snort]

I would worry about Powder coating, its porous and anywhere near water it rusts underneath and comes off and may block the radiator etc.

 

Not sure whats the best answer though, maybe stick with the antifreeze anti rust stuff to be safe.

[Sean N]

Hi Sean,

When I said tinning with solder, I was meaning the pressed steel side cover which was the cause of concern by Jules.

 

Another idea, recently I was making enquiries regarding stitching a badly cracked cyl block, the specialist explained to me that after it is done he pumps a ceramic sealer through the block to coat it in side. Maybe there is a sealer like this that can be applied to corroded components such as side covers, to seal them. I think paints are only alright if you can be sure rust is not going to get back in to the metal and lift a paint coating off. Other way is to make a new cover, the Morris Commercial 4 cyl engines are prone to perforating the side covers.

 

Sorry Richard, that was me being dull, I hadn't quite picked up that Jules just meant the side cover. I shouldn't try to do several tasks at once. I've successfully repaired similar covers and damaged sumps by floating them in braze.

 

I presume the ceramic is similar to the epoxy, being a strong permanent thin coating which would adhere to all the surfaces.

 

You could as you say make new cover, perhaps of a more corrosion resistant material; though I still think a good quality antifreeze would inhibit it enough.

 

Jules, I assume your worry is that some of the pitting might be a bit more 'through' than it appears?!

[paulbrook]

When the good Wally D had a mack engine re-sleeved for me I am pretty sure that they used a ceramic coating. I am unsure of the process but Wally may remember.

[thedawnpatrol]

Sorry Richard, that was me being dull, I hadn't quite picked up that Jules just meant the side cover. I shouldn't try to do several tasks at once. I've successfully repaired similar covers and damaged sumps by floating them in braze.

 

I presume the ceramic is similar to the epoxy, being a strong permanent thin coating which would adhere to all the surfaces.

 

You could as you say make new cover, perhaps of a more corrosion resistant material; though I still think a good quality antifreeze would inhibit it enough.

 

Jules, I assume your worry is that some of the pitting might be a bit more 'through' than it appears?!

 

Hi Sean, there are certainly no pin holes as I have checked it with a strong light and nothing shone through, however, I was concerned that the metal is thinner in spots.

 

Thanks to all for your thoughts......

 

Jules

[Sean N]

I spent some time on Google last night looking for ceramic coatings, but I didn't find any hard technical information, just incidental references.

 

It seems there's also a ceramic coating available along the lines of Nickasil, for bores / liners. Annoyingly I found more technical information about this than the one I was looking for!

[Gordon_M]

Any product like Kure-Rust which is basically phosphoric acid and leaves a phosphate surface on it would be fine. I can't think of anything substantial I'd want to put on there that wouldn't risk washing off into the radiator.

[wally dugan]

Just a word on the use of ceramics internally on engines not all ceramics are compatible with antifreeze

[thedawnpatrol]

this is what I'm talking about.................

 

 

is that 'Kure-Rust' one of the Hammerite range Gordon ?

 

thanks

 

Jules

[Gordon_M]

I don't know Jules, not bought any for ten years, but don't think so. It's a thin black liquid rust stabiliser designed for rusty surfaces, but I tend to use it as a coating on stuff that has been phosphated originally after I've taken it back to bare metal, for example bolt heads and shanks that I have altered, or ordinary steel spanners that I've blasted and want to stop flash rusting.

 

Chemically it is something like; Iron + Phosphoric Acid = Ferric / Ferrous / whatever phosphate.

 

This is close enough, Halfords retail it I think;

 

http://www.rust-cure.com/#!safety-data-sheet/cjek

Edited December 15, 2014 by Gordon_M

[MatchFuzee]

Have you looked at thermal spraying?

 

Thermal Spraying and Surface Engineering Association member list:-

 

http://www.tssea.co.uk/members.asp

[Sean N]

Think it's Kurust you're thinking of, Gordon, and if it isn't available there are plenty of similar products.

[markyakyak]

ZINGA from Enginewise grimsby, its a brush on zinc galvanising, used it on my morris quad over 10 years ago and still doing a good job.

[nz2]

Stopping internal corrosion about the water jackets and other water passages is a point I've considered with some of our vintage engines. In the case in question from this thread, the part is removal and could be treaded separately. Aside from using commercially available additives to the cooling water, to reduce corrosion, the same material can have the opposing effect in blocking radiator cores.

As a side issue in preventing corrosion in hot surfaces, we use a tannin based water treatment in the boiler of our steam roller, and this has now produced a layered effect over the inside of the boiler with a marked reduction in scale produced.

I have thought of using this same material on old engines that are infrequently used, however there is a point as to its beneficial use as opposed to reduced radiator efficiency. An additional lining within the radiator could produce more problems with a lack of cooling. Whether the temperature in the engine would be hot enough to activate the process is another question.

Perhaps it would be easier just to go and buy more commercial product designed for motor vehicles.

Doug