Hollywood versus pinewood...

[Enigma]

I see a lot of UK guys getting upset by the Americanisation of the war in movies.

I agree.....but.

 

Why doesn't Brit or Canadian movie makers make new warfilms.

There is a market for them but it seems most Brit warmovies are old like, Battle of britain, sink the Bismarck, Dambusters etc.

 

Like U 571 only mentions the capture of the Enigma by Brits at the end.

The Brits had the chance to make a movie about that for 55 years.

 

 

I can imagine the US making movies which the Brits don't and they give the impression they won the war. Patriotism and the idea of winning in the light of Iraq now...?

 

How about (new) Brit made movies about;

Falklands war

Desert War, (US - Tobruk, Sahara and parts of, Big Red One and Patton)

Crete

Atlantic Convoys, U-boatwar (US - U 571)

Bomber Command (US- Memphis belle)

WW1, Passendael, Ypres, Verdun (US - the lost battalion)

Dunkirk

Burma (US - objective Burma 1945)

Brit captives in Japcamps (US - the great raid)

 

 

 

Guess you can think of lots more!!!

[ArtistsRifles]

I think if any UK based film company wanted to make films based on these events they would get shot down in flames by the apologists that currently form our Gov't.

Take two at random from your list - the Falklands and Bomber Command.

Making a film about the Falklands would, in their twisted view, upset the Argentinians.

Making a film about Bomber Command would - in their same view - upset the Germans....

And that would never do now........ >

[Snapper]

As I recall the original template for Memphis Belle was a Bomber Command film, but they couldn't get the planes or any official help. It was easier to get half a dozen B17s and obviously the yankee interest was higher. It is is still, more or less, a British film.

 

I would dearly love to see a proper Band of Brothers quality production of WW1 - the Somme, especially. But it's about money. Spielberg wouldn't make it and there was not enough world wide involvement in the first day other than the poor hapless Newfoundlanders and the Bermudans subsumed into the Grimsby Chums.

 

The new Dambusters will be interesting. Then we have the Michael Mann/Tom Cruise vehicle.

 

I would like to see this new film about the Algerian troops fighting for France in WW2 and I have yet to see A Very Long Engagement. The French get on with it.

 

This leaves us the classics and the odd choker from Pinewood etc. My favourites are An Appointment In London; The Man Who Never Was; Dunkirk; In Which We Serve; The Dambusters and I suppose there are many more. What's that black and white film about our chaps in an Italian POW camp??

 

I think a films/TV/theatre section on this site could give us a few laughs and memories.

 

keep it going, lads.

 

 

[Jack]

 

Great question Enigma and one that many of us ask.

 

May be I can cast some light on it. Last year I had dinner with the guy whose the customer designer for Band of Brothers and due to have dinner again with them soon. He work on BoB from beginning to end and it was down to him that the uniforms where down to the detail that they were (even though he was overruled on several occasions). I asked him the same question as to why doesn't the UK film industry produce work like this as after all there is a big demand for it.

 

He simply answered that the UK film industry doesn't have the money to back such a project and that British aren't so patriotic as the USA - we are very conservative and we would rather make violent films about eastend gangsters or very 'safe' films with Hugh Grant as lead role.

 

Until we, as a nation have the guts to recognise what all of our armed forces have been through from all conflicts we will continue to see sipped, sloppy, baggy jumpered films.

 

[Bodge Deep]

The sad thing is, is that whilst the war was on, they (UK studios), made some corking war films... admittedly most were 'safe' themselves or with a great dollop of propaganda... but they were prolific and actually, occasionally churned out some good stuff. Check out 'Went the Day Well', an excellent film (& clearly where The Eagle Has Landed came from) & given the time it was released, quite chilling.

The war gave the film industry a real sense of purpose & to a point responsability = entertain, uplift, inform/misinform etc which now it seems to lack. The pressure to perform (financially) seems to nail most projects now before they get off the ground unless they have 'mass' appeal, which sadly stories about wars of the past, have lost, to the appeal of celebrity or CGI. :roll:

[Snapper]

Went the Day Well is a gem. It is interesting seeing a very young Thora Hird popping off the Huns with an SMLE. I can't remember which one, but I've also seen another film that may have had an influence on Harry Patterson/Jack Higgins. Personally, I love the Eagle Has Landed in both film and book formats. Larry Hagman was an inspired choice.

 

Has anyone seen the old Arnhem film - I think it was called Theirs Is The Glory or the classic David Lean stuff with David Niven? The titles evade me - mental block.

[AlienFTM]

This leaves us the classics and the odd choker from Pinewood etc. My favourites are An Appointment In London; The Man Who Never Was; Dunkirk; In Which We Serve; The Dambusters and I suppose there are many more. What's that black and white film about our chaps in an Italian POW camp??

 

You forgot "I Was Monty's Double"

 

How's this for coincidence. My uncle volunteered for the Northumberland Hussars in September 1939. They had long since disappeared apart from an Old Comrades Association affiliated with 15th/19th The King's Royal Hussars (my local cavalry regiment based in Northumberland and Durham), whom I joined in 1975, completely unaware of a link to my mother's generation.

 

His wife, my mother's sister served as an auxiliary at RPO Leicester with the Royal Army Pay Corps under the command of a Lt Col M. E. Clifton-James RAPC. Again, I was completely unware of this when I transferred from 15/19H to RAPC, and my only Pay posting was to a unit where almost all soldiers were administered by RPO Leicester.

 

Who was Lt Col M. E. Clifton-James? He was Monty's double and played both parts in the film.

[Richard Notton]

Great question Enigma and one that many of us ask.

 

 

He simply answered that the UK film industry doesn't have the money to back such a project and that British aren't so patriotic as the USA - we are very conservative and we would rather make violent films about eastend gangsters or very 'safe' films with Hugh Grant as lead role.

Well, you nearly took the words out of my mouth Jack, it grips me too that the Moneywood output is "teaching" the world how America won the war.

 

But, its the money that does it; we have to realise that feature films are made to make money, priority 1 to 9. Historical accuracy is near, if not at the bottom of the list as it costs a great deal and we need to remember too the box office profits come from the US.

 

Film finance is from the USA so to have your project funded you need a combination of, or one trump card in particular, covering: an American story line, some big-name US actors on board and/or a world class director/producer.

 

Of course once you have taken the Moneywood shilling your ideas and vision will be subject to the studio's and its accountants plans.

 

Also bear in mind that the British have always covered military matters with security classifications, and private filming or the use of a camera was, and is, a serious offence; not so with the US and positively encouraged by the Wehrmacht with issued cameras and photo albums. Bear in mind too that all the official British film of D Day was lost in a processing accident which further helps the imbalance.

 

Lets face it, until there is a huge change in the industry order, then the real effort will be seen as the grand sweep through France by the US military whilst the British and Canadians sat on their hands around Caen for a couple of weeks drinking tea.

 

For example, I'm sure those of us with satellite TV have seen enough "training" material to operate, fight and maintain an Abrams MBT; we might see a frost in Hell before similar material is ever seen about Challenger 2. . . . . . . . . . . . .

 

You have to admire the US pride, nationalism and the patriotism though, but to my chagrin a similar demonstration here it seems, would likely lead to official complaint or even the risk of a court appearance, as has happened. . . . . . . . . . .Bit of a shame don't you think?

 

There again, I was one of the millions who ticked the "Other" box for nationality/ethnic origin on the recent census form thus allowing me to state, as officially demanded, on the appropriate empty line provided . . . . . . .

 

"English."

[M5Clive]

Did anyone see Jeremy Clarkson's documentary the weekend before last about 'The Greatest Raid of All,' where the British Commando's carried out the surprise attack on the Dry Dock at St. Nazairne, ramming the dock gates with a Royal Navy cruiser, packed full of explosives?

 

This was an excellent programme, and like him or loath him, Clarkson had a brilliant way of putting the story across, making it fresh and imaginative.

 

Now that story would be the ideal factual basis for an excellent film on the heroics of the British during WWII. Now I'm sure people will say the story has been done before, but what the hell? Saving Private Ryan was all about D-Day and hadn't we seen that before when the Longest Day came out in the 1960's?

 

Pearl Harbour was another great film and hadn't we seen that all before when Tora Tora Tora hit the box-office in the 1970's?

 

So we (The Brits) have the pedigree, we have the wherewithall and we have the ability, but I bet we don't do it!

 

Pity................I know Hollywood doesn't always get it right, but at least they do it. I visited the set of Band of Brothers during filming and my eyes were widened. The level of detail was incredible. I just wish we could pull it off too!

 

Cds

[ArtistsRifles]

Not to mention the antics of Messr's Stirling and Mayne out in the desert - the things those guys from the original L Det, SAS, got up to would likely out-do anything Hollywood could dream up!! :-) :-)

 

<snipped>

You have to admire the US pride, nationalism and the patriotism though, but to my chagrin a similar demonstration here it seems, would likely lead to official complaint or even the risk of a court appearance, as has happened. . . . . . . . . . .Bit of a shame don't you think?

 

There again, I was one of the millions who ticked the "Other" box for nationality/ethnic origin on the recent census form thus allowing me to state, as officially demanded, on the appropriate empty line provided . . . . . . .

 

"English."

 

 

You too Richard?? :-)

 

And as regards the "official complaint" bit - I actually got reprimanded at work last year just for daring to ask if it would be OK to take little Maud in for the "drive it to work day"!!

Bit off-topic here (sorry Mods) - I had to get special dispensation from the local HR manageress to take her in for the special Employees Vehicle Day just before W&P. Not that she was happy then - the young girls stewarding the event got bollocked because the colleague who sat (stood) in the commander position and I spent the sat in or around the Stalwart, she never bothered to check if we'd taken the day off as vacation - which we had - but the look on her face when we walked off with a cup in the prize giving was priceless :evil:

[hardyferret]

I read they are going to produce, a new 'Dam Busters', in the same article concern was voiced over Guy Gibson's dog and the callsign for the dam breaching.

At this point I started to despair :roll: :dunno:

 

I would love to see the book 'The Phantom Major' made into a film, but who for the starring role as David Stirling,

 

I'll put myself up, :-D Neil you could be Paddy Mayne :-D :-D

 

Sure we can turn it in to an awesome epic.....

 

Hardyferret 8-) :whistle:

[AlienFTM]

Did anyone see Jeremy Clarkson's documentary the weekend before last about 'The Greatest Raid of All,' where the British Commando's carried out the surprise attack on the Dry Dock at St. Nazairne, ramming the dock gates with a Royal Navy cruiser, packed full of explosives?

 

A clapped out ex World War 1 USN destroyer "loaned" to the RN under Lend-Lease. Became HMS Campeltown.

 

Op Chariot. Great story - ideal film subject matter. First ever British Combined Operation by definition. (They hadn't previously invented the term.)

 

St Nazaire's dry dock was the only such on the Atlantic coast in German-occupied Europe big enough to hold Tirpitz. Built for the pride of the French liner fleet (Normandie? France?). Having seen her sister ship, Bismark, sunk trying to reach St Nazaire for repairs after being damaged trying to escape retribution for sinking the Hood, the War Office knew that destroying the St Nazaire dry dock would render Tirpitz impotent, with nowhere to flee if damaged after the RN and RAF had mined the Kattegat and Skaggerak to deny her her home port.

 

I believe it to be out of print, but if you can get hold of it, read "the Greatest Raid of All."

[Snapper]

The Campbeltown was one of fifty destroyers swapped for bases in the Caribbean in 1940. She was the USS Buchanan.

 

There was a film based on the raid called Attack On The Iron Coast. This had Lloyd Bridges as the inevitable "Canadian" leading our commandos. It was B movie stuff, but is a gem of sorts. I've always thought the commandos in the film were the basis for the 1/76 scale commando set from Airfix!!

 

Move on your interest to St Georges Day 1918 and the raid on Zeebrugge. The publicists had a field day with the banner "Eleven VC's before breakfast" but the truth is 3 of these were won a week later when the loons came back and attacked Ostend. They were giants. The leader of all this was Roger Keyes who was the combined ops king of the early war until they gave the job to Mountbatten. He had connections. He gets good publicity for St Nazaire. But then came Dieppe.....

 

[john wheatley (R.I.P.)]

I think the film about the St. Nazaire Raid was called The Gift Horse

John.

[Jack]

Did anyone see Jeremy Clarkson's documentary the weekend before last about 'The Greatest Raid of All,' where the British Commando's carried out the surprise attack on the Dry Dock at St. Nazairne, ramming the dock gates with a Royal Navy cruiser, packed full of explosives?

 

 

This was awesome - BBC as it should. I had to watch the repeat as I was overruled as the family wanted to watch Zone Reality!

 

What subject matter and this is also J Clarkson at his best, he does have a good style when presenting these programmes - I believe that his Father-in-law is a VC winner. I was completely frustrated as to why we do not see more programming like this. This programme educated me and people around me, more of it please. Having been involved at certain levels of the TV world I know how flippant the producers are (mind you, they are all in their early 20's) and that make TV for the moment, not for the past.

 

It is an outrage that the only memorial that these guys got that was a lump of granite on a Jetty!

[AlienFTM]

What subject matter and this is also J Clarkson at his best, he does have a good style when presenting these programmes - I believe that his Father-in-law is a VC winner.

 

Correct. A couple of years ago JC did an hour long programme for the BBC about a Major at Arnhem who won a VC for his actions including the destruction of a number of Tigers (though sources suggest this may have been an oft-repeated mistake because they fitted side skirts to Mark 4s from the G onwards which deliberately gave them a very similar profile to a Tiger) with a PIAT, suffering numerous (flesh) wounds from returned MG fire in the process in order to protect his men.

 

At the end of the programme he asked himself the onbvious question, "Why did you choose to profile this particular VC when there were numerous better-documented VCs awarded?"

 

His reply was that the Major was indeed his father-in-law but sadly he died before JC ever met him.

 

I suspect it was this that got JC to appear in Who Do You Think You Are? or vice versa.

[Sylvester]

Well Folks.... I wish the Brits would make some films about any conflict such as N.I. , Cyprus, Malayan Conflict or any damed place that they might just need a darned FERRET!!! :banghead:

It was the same when I used to work on the Chieftain! We would have had to dress up as Iranians to get any film work for that eh? :argh:

All you guys with WW2 veh's get all the Luck these days :rofl:

All the Best to You All

 

Fred :evil:

[Enigma]

Well Folks.... I wish the Brits would make some films about any conflict such as N.I. , Cyprus, Malayan Conflict or any damed place that they might just need a darned FERRET!!! :banghead:

It was the same when I used to work on the Chieftain! We would have had to dress up as Iranians to get any film work for that eh? :argh:

All you guys with WW2 veh's get all the Luck these days :rofl:

All the Best to You All

 

Fred :evil:

 

Hmmm, i offered my Dodge for the Band of Brothers series but they didn't film in the Netherlands...no luck for me.

Did get a nice BoB logo letter stating the filming would be confined to the UK though.

[Snapper]

Correct. A couple of years ago JC did an hour long programme for the BBC about a Major at Arnhem who won a VC for his actions including the destruction of a number of Tigers (though sources suggest this may have been an oft-repeated mistake because they fitted side skirts to Mark 4s from the G onwards which deliberately gave them a very similar profile to a Tiger) with a PIAT, suffering numerous (flesh) wounds from returned MG fire in the process in order to protect his men.

 

Major Robert Cain of the South Staffordshire Regiment.