simon in a 432 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Went to road register the 432 last week and have been told that it is too wide for road use as it's over 2.5m wide. They also said that other 432's that have been registered in the past shouldn't be on the road. does anyone know if the rules have changed or if I've entered it as the wrong type of vehicle? I also hope I have not messed it up for everyuone else who drives a 432 on the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Simon, The NLBA managed to register a Chieftain for the road, so a 432 should be no problem. It is no wider than a bus or lorry. I don't understand how there seems to be so much variation between the different DVLA offices, I registered one in Nottingham with no questions asked. Try taking your paperwork there! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Coe Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Peter from EAFVG also has his 432 road-registered. Try a quick trip down to Ipswich [don't forget yer passport ;-) ] Regarding the 2.5 metre business: I'd imagine an Antar can't be far off that width. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 The 2.5 metre width only applies to goods vehicles operating under construction and use regulations. There are loads of vehicles registered outside of those. Your local office is talking bollocks, though I'm sure through ignorance rather than malice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REME 245 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 When I tried to get my Saladin registered about ten years ago I had a similar problem. I was told it was over 2.5 metres wide and there was no possibilty what so ever of me ever getting it registered. They even gave a phone number for the vehicle inspectorate who said the same thing. Luckerly for me I was able to get some advice from Chris Davis which resolved the problem very quickly. What the DVLA were forgetting was that before you can applie Construction and Use Regulation you have to decide what class to put the vehicle in. Every class has its own set of regulations including in some cases a 2.5 metre width limit. I dont know what the limit is for the tracked vehicle class, but in my case I was succesfully able to argue that as there was no specific taxation class for a turreted armoured car, it was unfair for the DVLA to pick one which precluded its use on the Road. Within a week I had a letter back informing me that it was now classed as a heavy road tractor or something similar. The Construction and Use Regulations for this class allowed a greater width. I would suggest you obtain a copy of the Construction and Use regulations concerning tracked vehicles. In the past DVLA inspectors were willing to excercise a lot of flexability in taxation classes but dont expect it now. Of course if the DVLA actually knew what they were doing they would have queried the fact that the FV432 range steer and brake using the same system which I thought was illegeal for road use. Perhaps others can confirm this. Perhaps the regulations are not applied retrospectivly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 I registered our 432 as Body Type: Special Mobile Unit Wheelplan: tracks I filled out the form, they gave me a tax disc. The tax class is Historic and there shouldn't be a question about that. Nobody asked about the steering/braking system, everyone says it's supposedly illegal yet nobody has proof. As long as you've got the blue from 645 you should be ok. That form in essence says the vehicle was used on the road by the MoD, if they can use it on the road then so can you. Honestly the number of people who have trouble registering vehicles, or pass on rumours about not being able to register this or that is rediculous. The best way to do it is to assemble all the documents you need, fill in a V55 and then go to the local DVLA office. Give the person on the counter as little information as possible. I'm sure pitching up with a photo of a tank and saying 'register this' causes far more problems than handing over a completed form and letting them get on with it. If anyone wants to pay me I will gladly start a vehicle registration service! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 You might be on to a nice little earner there if you do!! :evil: :evil: :evil: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobFox Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 I registered our 432 as Body Type: Special Mobile Unit Wheelplan: tracks I filled out the form, they gave me a tax disc. The tax class is Historic and there shouldn't be a question about that. Nobody asked about the steering/braking system, everyone says it's supposedly illegal yet nobody has proof. As long as you've got the blue from 645 you should be ok. That form in essence says the vehicle was used on the road by the MoD, if they can use it on the road then so can you. Honestly the number of people who have trouble registering vehicles, or pass on rumours about not being able to register this or that is rediculous. The best way to do it is to assemble all the documents you need, fill in a V55 and then go to the local DVLA office. Give the person on the counter as little information as possible. I'm sure pitching up with a photo of a tank and saying 'register this' causes far more problems than handing over a completed form and letting them get on with it. If anyone wants to pay me I will gladly start a vehicle registration service! Chris Chris You are the one of the most helpful and knowledgeable blokes i know when it comes to Armoured Vehicles - so you may as well start the Registration service ASAP - You have my vote. Cheers. Bob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 Nobody asked about the steering/braking system, everyone says it's supposedly illegal yet nobody has proof. As long as you've got the blue from 645 you should be ok. That form in essence says the vehicle was used on the road by the MoD, if they can use it on the road then so can you. In the 1970s I was indeed taught that the 432 was not legal on UK roads for this reason and I have to say that to this day I have never seen one on a UK road. (We didn't have then in recce and my one RAC tour on the mainland UK did not involve us working alongside 432s - or anything else apart from Ex Bugle Call in 1976 which stayed mainly on The Plain.) As you say, I have no proof, but if it were me, I'd keep quiet about the 432 being used on the road by the MOD, as I have no positive proof of that either. If they want to believe that and it gets your vehicle registered, don't rock the boat. ;o) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon in a 432 Posted March 29, 2007 Author Share Posted March 29, 2007 Chris You are the one of the most helpful and knowledgeable blokes i know when it comes to Armoured Vehicles - so you may as well start the Registration service ASAP - You have my vote. Cheers. Bob. I must say you have been very helpful in the short time I've been on this forum and if I can't get it registered I may have to bung you some cash to sort it :whistle: I think I might try filling in the form in again as a Special Mobile Unit and try a different DVLA office , don't want to push my luck by going back to the same one and arguing about the vehicle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddington Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 Simon Never had a problem at Worcester DVLA office,I reg'd my two vehicles there 6 or 7 years ago and my mate did his a couple of months ago. The biggest problem I've ever had was an officious postmaster refusing to retax a Stalwart without a MOT cert. :banghead: Cheers DaveP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REME 245 Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 Chris Just because you have be able to blag your way through a few registrations does not mean that there are not pit falls out there which the unwary vehicle owner can fall into, particularly as you comment, if you give the person behind the counter too much information or worse still ask them a question. I have now found the form I received from the Vehicle Inspectorateafter the DVLA refused to to tax my Saladin on the basis that it was to wide. On it they state my vehicle is now being classed as a 'Motor Tractor / Locomtive'. When I went to tax it the DVLA just confused the situation more by taxing it as a PLG. This was before the days of the 'Historic Vehicle Class, and at the time the DVLA were trying to ban Stalwarts or any vehicle on that chassis off the road. Every Taxation Class including 'Historic Vehicle' must have a set of 'Construction and Use Regulations' which should in theroy be applied at the time of registration. The fact that the DVLA most of the time have no ideal what they are registering, and the majority of our vehicles never see the inside of a testing station, in some cases is probably very benefical. Regarding my comments /rummors on the mechanics of the FV432 range, there is no possibilty now that it is leagal to manufacture a vehicle which uses the same set of braking bands to steer and brake (including hand brake). I quired in my post when the law changed and if it could be applied retospectivly e.g., vehicles manuactured before the legal introduction of seat belts are not subject to this law. I am a long serving REME TA soldier and every instructor will tell you that the army have an excemption to use these vehicles on the road. I apply no more credence to this story than any others, but the fact the DVLA are still licensing these vehicles does not mean they know what they are doing. As you state the best way to ensure a trouble free registeration is do some research prior to visiting the DVLA office and tender the correct forms giving Historic Vehicle as the Taxation Class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 Neil, I have only ever found the people at the DVLA helpful. They want to help get the vehicles on the road, they want to help you make it MOT exempt and they want to make sure it is in a suitable taxation class. This is especially true when registering the Sabre the other week, they didn't know what taxation class is belonged in but quickly came back and said it would fit under 'Special Vehicle' which was actually cheaper. Our Fox is registered as a 'Motor Tractor' as this is what a contact at the Department of Transport decided would be a suitable class for it. I've not done any blagging, I've been upfront and honest with them! As for construction and use regulations, of course there will be allowance for older vehicles, they're never going to meet modern regulations. The way I understand it is that they have to meet the regulations for the year of manufacture. The 432s were built in the 60's, used on the roads in the 60's and therefore must have been deemed safe at the time. Of course we all know now that the steering and braking system is not ideal, but would you refuse a 1930s car registration because the rod brakes aren't very good, the lights are poor and there are no turn signals? Why were the DVLA trying to ban Alvis FV600 series vehicles? Do you have written proof of this or is it just more hearsay? This registration lark is all about choosing the correct catagory for registering your vehicle under. Back when Simon asked me this question originally I told him to put down 'Special Mobile Unit' on his form. Reading his reply below it seems he didn't, which is probably where the problem started! I think I might try filling in the form in again as a Special Mobile Unit and try a different DVLA office Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REME 245 Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 Chris As you state the problem arises when the person behind the desk tries to put your vehicle into a taxation group where Construction and Use Regulations preclude its registration. This at first appearance seems to be the problem with this FV432. If the owner takes your advice hopefully there should not be a problem. They have used their discretion in allowing your vehicle to be registered as a 'Special Vehicle', but they could have forced you to register it as a tracked vehicle. If there was then a 'Construction and Use Regulation' applied to that class which precuded its registration, you would then have had the greatest didfficulty in finding grounds for appeal. Its just an example of what can happen to the unwary. Regarding the Saladin, as I stated in my original post both the DVLA and the Vehicle Inspectorate told me at the time (1994) that no more FV600 vehicles were going to be registered. This position was obviously unsustainable and after taking advice I got my vehicle registered. I assume people don't have problems with these vehicles today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyroo Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 I assume people don't have problems with these vehicles today? I had no problems with mine. I had all the scare storys about them being too wide, too heavy, too many wheels... :-o I registed my Saracen Mk6 in August 1995 and the Saladin in July 1997. The Striker had to have an inspection, but that was only so they could see it existed, that was registed in March 2005. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 If you have a problem registering an MV take your problem to the IMPS/MVT they are there to help their members, aren't they :dunno: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tin Posted May 20, 2007 Share Posted May 20, 2007 If all else fails surely the 432 can be classed as an historical vehicle ie over 25 years old because after all that is, what it is. Chris is right, you can't rule a vehicle un road worthy because it doesn't have modern mechanicals. If it was fit for purpose then it should still be fit for purpose now. I have had a similar problem with my Spartan in Spain only here we have language and cultural issues to overcome. The biggest being that I am the only civvie with a full tracked military vehicle in Spain and I rocked the boat big time by involving the King of Spain. My story ends well in that the Spartan is now totally road legal as a historical vehicle. Believe me your problems are small by comparison. At least in the UK there are other tracked vehicles registered for road use that the DVLA can check on to make your case stand. I had none. Mick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Its me Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Simon did you manage to register the 432 for road use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon in a 432 Posted July 15, 2007 Author Share Posted July 15, 2007 :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) Last week we went to another DVLA office and tried to register the 432 .........................and we got it sorted :-) :-) The lady there was far more helpful and we gave as little information as possible and registered it as a special mobile unit. Thanks for all your help guys :tup: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/RB5SRULE/DSCF0031.jpg[/img] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerbysRed Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 Hi all The last post within this thread was posted in July 2007. Has anyone else any recent experience of this process. Tanks in advance Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 I had no problems with mine. I had all the scare storys about them being too wide, too heavy, too many wheels... :-oI registed my Saracen Mk6 in August 1995 and the Saladin in July 1997. The Striker had to have an inspection, but that was only so they could see it existed, that was registed in March 2005. Andy, do you have a picture of your Saracen, please post it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Hi all The last post within this thread was posted in July 2007. Has anyone else any recent experience of this process. Tanks in advance Chris I can PM anyone Department of Transports views on the road use of FV432 and other tracked vehicles over 2.55m wide if of use to anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afvnut75 Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 I registered our 432 as Body Type: Special Mobile Unit Wheelplan: tracks I filled out the form, they gave me a tax disc. The tax class is Historic and there shouldn't be a question about that. Nobody asked about the steering/braking system, everyone says it's supposedly illegal yet nobody has proof. As long as you've got the blue from 645 you should be ok. That form in essence says the vehicle was used on the road by the MoD, if they can use it on the road then so can you. Honestly the number of people who have trouble registering vehicles, or pass on rumours about not being able to register this or that is rediculous. The best way to do it is to assemble all the documents you need, fill in a V55 and then go to the local DVLA office. Give the person on the counter as little information as possible. I'm sure pitching up with a photo of a tank and saying 'register this' causes far more problems than handing over a completed form and letting them get on with it. If anyone wants to pay me I will gladly start a vehicle registration service! Chris hi chris well youve got my vote also to starting up an registration service im going to be registering my 432s soon so can you tell me what forms i need to get or do i just need a v55 form x2 my 434 is under the catagory (vehicle type) crawler would that be ok to use that as description when getting the others catagorised ? regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 That was several years ago now. I suggest you visit your local DVLA office and consult wth them. hi chris well youve got my vote also to starting up an registration service im going to be registering my 432s soon so can you tell me what forms i need to get or do i just need a v55 form x2 my 434 is under the catagory (vehicle type) crawler would that be ok to use that as description when getting the others catagorised ? regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 That was several years ago now. I suggest you visit your local DVLA office and consult wth them. Andy, do you have a picture of your Saracen, please post it. Hi sirhc, I remember you posted the pic of Andy's saladin with the bevelbox leak at the time (Saracen build-up), you can't perhaps assist with the above request, please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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