POPPY Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Afternoon all, last night i proudly collected my 1944 Ford CMP from Bristol. :laugh: I was almost home when all of a sudden she cut out on me. (Like it had ran out of fuel) and is now in resting in a kind farmers drive way! :undecided: On inspection there was still half a tank of petrol remaining. I repeatedly tried to fire her up (Good strong ignition) and (i can hear the fuel pump working well too) but she will not fire up. I am going back tonight to try and solve the fault.:nut: Any ideas from anyone if possable will be greatly appreciated!!! Regards all..... Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) Do check the fuel is actually getting to the carb. Just cause fueli in tank, don't mean it getting out! Wonder if the take up pipe may have hole in it? Are you actually getting spark at plug? A quick trip to local factor for a spark gap recommended. Edited August 20, 2013 by Tony B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POPPY Posted August 20, 2013 Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 Thanks Tony!!! I will have a look at them points you mentioned and let you all know how i get on! I hope i don't run the battery out tonight:-| She is on her original 6v system, do you know if will i damage her if i slave the battery off of my VW Golf? Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick W Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Should be ok to jump from 12v as long as you take the leads off once started and don't switch any lights on. Are you sure it's not dragging up contaminated fuel from bottom of tank? Take off fuel filter housing if you can and squirt it out with carb cleaner. Or try running with a slave fuel tank directly to pump. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Child Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Have you got the autopulse/electric fuel pump? If you can hear it ticking continually then it could be that fuel is not getting through. I had this after the truck had sat for a bit and it was slime on the fuel filter (just behind the cab under the toolbox) and in the Carb. Similarly the Ethanol which caused the slime had separated a lot of water in the fuel tank. Frost Ethomix has worked very well to prevent it since. A quick query - did you check the tank itself or did you use the petrol gauge? Petrol gauges on these things are notoriously unreliable - best check is with a broom handle or similar dipped into the tank. If you've just got an inch or two of liquid in the bottom it could be water instead of petrol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcot1751 Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Hi Mark, Sorry to hear you're have problems an easy way to check it's a fuel problem is to take along a separate gravity feed fuel tank and connect this direct to the carb if she fires up then you have either a no fuel in the tank or a blocked pick up pipe or filter. Have you taken the cap off as if the vent is blocked this can cause an air lock you usually hear a rush of air when you remove it if this is the problem. If she doesn't fire up once you've done the above then are you sure it's fuel could you have a wire off the coil or closed points ? I agree with the previous post ethanol causes a lot of fuel problems especially when a vehicle has been standing for some time, carbs can gum up and seals break up but as she got you nearly home it should be something fairly simple. Check fuel as described, then remove a plug and see if there's a spark, if not remove the distributor cap and check you have power to the points and there is a gap when on the highest part of the cam, I once went to help a friend who over the phone told me there was a gap at the points and it still wouldn't go ! There was, unfortunately there was a gap the whole time and if the points don't close at all they won't create a spark Hope that makes sense :-) Good Luck mate, Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Child Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 I think we've got a duplicate thread - perhaps one of the mods can combine the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 I think we've got a duplicate thread - perhaps one of the mods can combine the two. Done.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 I've jumped six volt of tweleve OK. Points mad, make sure all lights and acessories turned off. Get second person , touch slave lead on point of turning over and as soon as she goes take away. Only put on for a few seconds if not starting. A small slosh of pure fuel into the carb can help, if it fires you know the igntion system is working. Keep head away from top of carb it can blow back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Child Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 I've jumped six volt of tweleve OK. Points mad, make sure all lights and acessories turned off. Get second person , touch slave lead on point of turning over and as soon as she goes take away. Only put on for a few seconds if not starting. A small slosh of pure fuel into the carb can help, if it fires you know the igntion system is working. Keep head away from top of carb it can blow back. A dash of fuel is a good tip. For normal starting, Ford CMPs have a Holley carb with an accelerator pump. If you turn on the autopulse/electric fuel pump that will get fuel up to the carb and fill the bowl (wait until it pressurises and stops ticking). Alternatively turn the engine over a few times to draw the fuel through. Then depress the accelerator fully twice before each try to start. That will squirt some fuel down the inlet manifold. It makes a huge difference to starting (for me anyway). Personally I'd give it a decent go without a 12v jump first - no sense in risking damage unnecessarily, especially as you mention she's got a good strong ignition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulbrook Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 I picked up a fantastic set of books at the weekend - The Modern Motor Engineer - dated about 1950. In the first volume is a lengthy chapter drawing on pre and post war breakdown data from the RAC and it includes what I consider to be an excellent troubleshooting chart which would be perfect for owners of older vehicles. If anyone is interested I will scan and paste the chart for folks to download as they see fit. As for the data, both pre and post war data list ignition as being the commonest cause of breakdown by a long chalk. But who can guess what the next commonest cause was? Anyway with regard to a dead CMP I would check the points for gap and cleanliness, then the plugs for a spark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Yes please! A cardboard brain is always valauble. That's why pilots always use printed check lists! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Child Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Another ponderance as it's an unfamilliar vehicle. Silly query, but check the fuel tap is on - it's a selector switch on the floor between the two seats. It's in a position where if you put something between the seats, it could get knocked and cut off the fuel supply. It selects between the two fuel tanks, so make sure the knob is twisted 45 degrees towards to the tank that's got the fuel in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Another ponderance as it's an unfamilliar vehicle. Silly query, but check the fuel tap is on - it's a selector switch on the floor between the two seats. It's in a position where if you put something between the seats, it could get knocked and cut off the fuel supply. It selects between the two fuel tanks, so make sure the knob is twisted 45 degrees towards to the tank that's got the fuel in. Who remeebrs a very old film about 'Who will have an acident on the way home?' One section is some toff who hires a Jag and dosen't know there are two tanks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Child Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Who remeebrs a very old film about 'Who will have an acident on the way home?' One section is some toff who hires a Jag and dosen't know there are two tanks? It works both ways. I've been filling a 432 on a slope not realising the two tanks are linked. Wandered back with next jerry can to see diesel pouring out of the other (lower) filler cap and down the side of the vehicle. It was a carry-on-film moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POPPY Posted August 20, 2013 Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 Hi Mark, Sorry to hear you're have problems an easy way to check it's a fuel problem is to take along a separate gravity feed fuel tank and connect this direct to the carb if she fires up then you have either a no fuel in the tank or a blocked pick up pipe or filter. Have you taken the cap off as if the vent is blocked this can cause an air lock you usually hear a rush of air when you remove it if this is the problem. If she doesn't fire up once you've done the above then are you sure it's fuel could you have a wire off the coil or closed points ? I agree with the previous post ethanol causes a lot of fuel problems especially when a vehicle has been standing for some time, carbs can gum up and seals break up but as she got you nearly home it should be something fairly simple. Check fuel as described, then remove a plug and see if there's a spark, if not remove the distributor cap and check you have power to the points and there is a gap when on the highest part of the cam, I once went to help a friend who over the phone told me there was a gap at the points and it still wouldn't go ! There was, unfortunately there was a gap the whole time and if the points don't close at all they won't create a spark Hope that makes sense :-) Good Luck mate, Dave Dave, Thank you for the great tips! Regards Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POPPY Posted August 20, 2013 Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 I picked up a fantastic set of books at the weekend - The Modern Motor Engineer - dated about 1950. In the first volume is a lengthy chapter drawing on pre and post war breakdown data from the RAC and it includes what I consider to be an excellent troubleshooting chart which would be perfect for owners of older vehicles. If anyone is interested I will scan and paste the chart for folks to download as they see fit. As for the data, both pre and post war data list ignition as being the commonest cause of breakdown by a long chalk. But who can guess what the next commonest cause was? Anyway with regard to a dead CMP I would check the points for gap and cleanliness, then the plugs for a spark. Thanks Paul ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joris Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 I picked up a fantastic set of books at the weekend - The Modern Motor Engineer - dated about 1950. In the first volume is a lengthy chapter drawing on pre and post war breakdown data from the RAC and it includes what I consider to be an excellent troubleshooting chart which would be perfect for owners of older vehicles. If anyone is interested I will scan and paste the chart for folks to download as they see fit. As for the data, both pre and post war data list ignition as being the commonest cause of breakdown by a long chalk. But who can guess what the next commonest cause was? Anyway with regard to a dead CMP I would check the points for gap and cleanliness, then the plugs for a spark. Yes please!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POPPY Posted August 20, 2013 Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 Good evening all i am back from my broken down Ford CMP, Firstly thanks all for all your very helpful tips. After eliminating all the possible faults that you instructed me to investigate, it quickly became apparent that it is most probably the COIL that is to blame for the engine not firing up! There is power to the coil but nothing coming out! On closer inspection there appears to be a large hairline crack on the top of the coil, (also the coil is heavily dented?) I am now looking at sourcing a new 6V Coil to hopefully get her back on her feet:) Does any one know where i can purchase a 6 V Coil? (Preferably one close to Bristol) Thanks again to you all for your help earlier, it made life so much easier to a guy that has very limited mechanical knowledge:blush: Regards Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulbrook Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 I think I am wading out into deep water here but am I not right in thinking that most coils are already 6v? Just some nagging voice in my head telling me that...... Although I may have been having too many late nights. I will check and get back to you.... Still no guesses at the next most common pre and post war breakdown issue then??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Many modern coils are designed for ballast resistor systems and are rated at 6-7 volts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 I am now looking at sourcing a new 6V Coil to hopefully get her back on her feet:) Does any one know where i can purchase a 6 V Coil? (Preferably one close to Bristol) Mark, Just call one of the jeep parts dealers, they stock 6v coils, phone up and its in the post the next day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Shopland Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Afternoon all, last night i proudly collected my 1944 Ford CMP from Bristol. :laugh: I was almost home when all of a sudden she cut out on me. (Like it had ran out of fuel) and is now in resting in a kind farmers drive way! :undecided: On inspection there was still half a tank of petrol remaining. I repeatedly tried to fire her up (Good strong ignition) and (i can hear the fuel pump working well too) but she will not fire up. I am going back tonight to try and solve the fault.:nut: Any ideas from anyone if possable will be greatly appreciated!!! Regards all..... Mark Hi Mark, where did you break down? If it is local to Bristol I am sure some would be willing to tow you home/off the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wally dugan Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 running out of fuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Do the job properly! Get hold of Frank and tell him your woes, he is a good listener. Then get a coil and electronic ignition from him, Happy Days Mate!:-D Best investment in MV's I've made, easy to fit , nothing to see and starts every time 6 volt or 12. http://www.classicheads.com/ No I'm not on commision, just very pleased with his products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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