question Refit of jeep engine

[hoppy]

Hi all

 

Just a quick line to ask advice or opinions in relation to the refitting of an engine into a Hotchkiss jeep.

 

The engine has been taken out for valve work and everything bar the distributor was stripped off. I would especially like to know if any gaskets need replacing as a matter of course regardless of condition and what if any selants need to be used as the TM9-803 I have refers a couple of times to replacing gaskets and 'cemeting' into place.

 

Many thanks.

[Pete Ashby]

Hi all

 

Just a quick line to ask advice or opinions in relation to the refitting of an engine into a Hotchkiss jeep.

 

The engine has been taken out for valve work and everything bar the distributor was stripped off. I would especially like to know if any gaskets need replacing as a matter of course regardless of condition and what if any selants need to be used as the TM9-803 I have refers a couple of times to replacing gaskets and 'cemeting' into place.

 

Many thanks.

 

You need to replace all the removed gaskets with new ones. As for sealants, use either good quality silicon sealant or red hermatite or blue hylamar on both surfaces with the exception of the following, exhaust/inlet manifold to block and head to block these should be fitted dry.

 

Pete

[hoppy]

Pete

 

Many thanks

[paulbrook]

Blue hylomar in moderation is OK, but decent gaskets on decent components need little or nothing of anything.

 

I personally am not a silicone fan (not even on Baywatch) but some folk use it happily. I would be wary as enthusiastic use can lead to lumps of the stuff going where you dont want it. Going back to the decent gasket and decent component comment there is nowhere for even a thin bead of silicone to go except into where you dont want it. I recently spent an expensive (for the owner) few hours digging silicone out of a Bedford engine.

 

Especially dont use silicone on the head gasket (which I presume is a new one?), and hylomar isnt the best either. Use Wellseal on that.

 

If you dont have a head gasket then I have a new one one hanging on my wall (a long story that I won't bore you with!)

[hoppy]

Blue hylomar in moderation is OK, but decent gaskets on decent components need little or nothing of anything.

 

I personally am not a silicone fan (not even on Baywatch) but some folk use it happily. I would be wary as enthusiastic use can lead to lumps of the stuff going where you dont want it. Going back to the decent gasket and decent component comment there is nowhere for even a thin bead of silicone to go except into where you dont want it. I recently spent an expensive (for the owner) few hours digging silicone out of a Bedford engine.

 

Especially dont use silicone on the head gasket (which I presume is a new one?), and hylomar isnt the best either. Use Wellseal on that.

 

If you dont have a head gasket then I have a new one one hanging on my wall (a long story that I won't bore you with!)

 

Paul

 

Will be using JEEPARTS for any replacement bits (25 mins up road from me), I have a new head gasket already. Having a look will need a manifold to block and down pipe to manifold gaskets and I presume there is a gasket on the oil drain nut that needs replacing as there seems to be the remains of one wrapped around the threads of the plug.

 

 

Cheers

[Pete Ashby]

Paul

 

I presume there is a gasket on the oil drain nut that needs replacing as there seems to be the remains of one wrapped around the threads of the plug.

 

Cheers

 

Yes it should be copper but some times you'll find that has been replaced with a fibre washer don't put any gasket sealant on that it also should be fitted dry.

 

Pete

[hoppy]

Yes it should be copper but some times you'll find that has been replaced with a fibre washer don't put any gasket sealant on that it also should be fitted dry.

 

Pete

 

Pete

 

The remains are of a fibre washer, chance would have it an ebay search has thrown up some copper NOS gaskets in America (set of 10)

[commander]

While it is down I would replace the end crankshaft seal on the clutch end and

also the little fibre gasket that goes on the gearbox shaft that fits into the engine

as both of these need a major strip down to replace

Commander

[paulbrook]

I am pretty sure I found a copper washer in Halfords.

 

I had to have a sit down I was so shocked.

[Big ray]

I am pretty sure I found a copper washer in Halfords.

 

I had to have a sit down I was so shocked.

 

Was that because you found the copper washer, or because you found yourself in Halfords ????

[paulbrook]

Don't tell anyone but Halfords do excellent classic 20W50 oil.......

 

But no - I was shocked because they actually had something I needed (a copper washer)

[hoppy]

Was that because you found the copper washer, or because you found yourself in Halfords ????

 

Ray

 

Going off at a tangent; how was the Normandy trip? Hope you had a great time over there wish could have gone myself but with work etc .................. I did get to the last meeting; bored some people with the pictures of the loose valve (lots of sucking of teeth) had a cup of tea and a guided tour of the yard with all the stored goodies!!!

 

Back to thread though, as you may have guessed I have cracked on with the issues surrounding the jeep engine; engine removed and off to the engineers (Contact Engine Services Brierley Hill) just waiting for their assessment what needs to be done.

 

Taking it out was the easy bit, I want to make sure everything is as it should be when re assembled:undecided:

[Tony B]

Don't tell anyone but Halfords do excellent classic 20W50 oil.......

 

But no - I was shocked because they actually had something I needed (a copper washer)

 

It's a semi synthetic oil, and damm good stuff! I'm running my Dodge WC51 on it. Much better at holding the pressure up after a long run.

[hoppy]

It's a semi synthetic oil, and damm good stuff! I'm running my Dodge WC51 on it. Much better at holding the pressure up after a long run.

 

Tony

 

Will have a look at that one, thanks for the info.

 

Whilst the jeep is layed up I have taken time to give everthing a good look over, greasing etc. I need to top up both axles and gearbox/transmission. Rather than starting a new thread off what oils would you suggest for these two components?

 

 

Cheers

[marmon]

Disagree with using silicone, if nothing else it will look terrible!!! Give all gaskets a light coat of Loctite 30517 (nice dark brown colour) including the head gsk and manifold or alternatively use Loctite aerosol spray copper gasket (not the silicone) on the head and manifold, both these are similar to Permatex products which are hard to find in the UK.

 

I was told during my apprenticeship never to apply gasket cements to head gaskets, I've since learnt better! I would say to use it on all gaskets that do not have heat melting glue applied and even then use the spray copper, great stuff and you wont see either of these oozing in blue, red or orange horror from every joint!

[Degsy]

It's a semi synthetic oil, and damm good stuff! I'm running my Dodge WC51 on it. Much better at holding the pressure up after a long run.

 

It's either classic or it's semi synth, it can't be both. Tony, I'm sorry to have to say it to you but you are recommending something which completely contradicts all the advice offered by the oil technologists. I am not saying there is anything wrong with the oil, merely that it is not suitable for this particular application.

[Degsy]

 

 

 

Whilst the jeep is layed up I have taken time to give everthing a good look over, greasing etc. I need to top up both axles and gearbox/transmission. Rather than starting a new thread off what oils would you suggest for these two components?

 

 

Cheers

 

The TM10 Lube Order states that you should use EP90 in the axles but a straight 90 such as Morris's AG90 in the transmission

[Pete Ashby]

Disagree with using silicone, if nothing else it will look terrible!!! Give all gaskets a light coat of Loctite 30517 (nice dark brown colour) including the head gsk and manifold or alternatively use Loctite aerosol spray copper gasket (not the silicone) on the head and manifold, both these are similar to Permatex products which are hard to find in the UK.

 

I was told during my apprenticeship never to apply gasket cements to head gaskets, I've since learnt better! I would say to use it on all gaskets that do not have heat melting glue applied and even then use the spray copper, great stuff and you wont see either of these oozing in blue, red or orange horror from every joint!

 

At the end of the day you can use what ever you want. The different sealants on the market all have pros and cons but in nearly 40 years I to say I have never put sealant on on a head gasket, providing both surfaces are decked correctly it should not be needed and can cause problems when torquing down the head. As for the use of silicone I agree with you it can look awful, however if used sparingly and a good quality purpose made product (not BQ cheap trade bath sealant as I have seen used) is used you won't know the difference. I do hold my hand up to using exhaust paste on six cylinder exhaust manifolds but only as a get you home from tour bodge.

 

Pete

[Tony B]

It's either classic or it's semi synth, it can't be both. Tony, I'm sorry to have to say it to you but you are recommending something which completely contradicts all the advice offered by the oil technologists. I am not saying there is anything wrong with the oil, merely that it is not suitable for this particular application.

 

The tin is up the yard somewhere, I'll take a picture of it and post the details. The T-214 engine runs quite happily on it. I'm also still trrying to track down a local supplier for Morris straight gear oil though.

[paulbrook]

I recommend it too (the classic 20w50), and have used gallons of the stuff in everything from a MGA to a Champ. It is low detergent and has seal conditioner in it. The tin does not say if it is mineral or semi synthetic, my guess is the former but it sort of depends on the definition of semi synthetic.

 

Anyway I swear by it so fetch me an oil technologist and we'll see how much he or she knows about old motors........

 

I liken it to the old Duchams Q - the only oil that would keep pressure in a hot Jag engine.

[paulbrook]

Oh and I stick it in my Dodge engine too now that the high detergent diesel 30 weight has done its stuff.

[Degsy]

I think two different oils are being discussed here, the classic 20/50 will be a mineral oil but the semi synth will be loaded with detergents and dispersants. If anyone thinks that oil technologists don't understand 'old' vehicles I suggest they take a look at Morris Lubes site.

[Tony B]

This is of the Halford's site, so obvously company propoganda, I'll get details off the tin, if I can find the thing when I'm lookinging for it! Tomorrow. http://reviews.halfords.com/4028/537977/reviews.htm

[N.O.S.]

My guess is that this is just a standard mineral oil, specially blended just means it is a 20W50, and so being somewhat thicker than your normal 15W40 promotion oil means that it is more suitable for knackered old lumps sorry, I mean classic engines from the 60s 70s and 80s :-D

 

Oh and I use 20W50 in my GMC now, having unintentionally flushed it through with copious amounts of straight 30. And that was after donkeys years of running on 15W40. Mind you, it probably all comes out of the same tank......

 

And no, I don't really know what I'm doing with oils any more. I used to be quite happy in my own little world until I started reading all the advice on here and now I'm thoroughly confused :sweat: If I can't decide on a bottle of wine I go by the label which catches my eye. Now I quite like the yellow and blue packaging that Morris use :cheesy:

 

I think at the end of the day, unless you and your treasured MV are going to be hauling 5 T over the Red Ball route for the next month without time for a bath or proper breakfast, your choice of oil ain't gonna make that much difference?

Edited June 12, 2012 by N.O.S.

[cosrec]

As for sealers use what the manufacturers used when they first built the vehicle (none apart from a light film of oil on copper head gaskets) .

As for oil dont be too pedantic put some in. It will run with out it but stop eventually.

Remember when these vehicles were built oil technology was not at any stage like it is now. So basically as long it has a sump full of clean modern day engine oil (cost is irrelavant unless you believe advertising blurb) it will do what the average MV enthusiast wants.

With a couple of exceptions e.g it will be running 24/7/365 hauling vast loads or you have tuned it up and entered it in the the 1/4 mile at santa pod just put some oil in it

[Tony B]

My guess is that this is just a standard mineral oil, specially blended just means it is a 20W50, and so being somewhat thicker than your normal 15W40 promotion oil means that it is more suitable for knackered old lumps sorry, I mean classic engines from the 60s 70s and 80s :-D

 

Oh and I use 20W50 in my GMC now, having unintentionally flushed it through with copious amounts of straight 30. And that was after donkeys years of running on 15W40. Mind you, it probably all comes out of the same tank......

 

And no, I don't really know what I'm doing with oils any more. I used to be quite happy in my own little world until I started reading all the advice on here and now I'm thoroughly confused :sweat: If I can't decide on a bottle of wine I go by the label which catches my eye. Now I quite like the yellow and blue packaging that Morris use :cheesy:

 

I think at the end of the day, unless you and your treasured MV are going to be hauling 5 T over the Red Ball route for the next month without time for a bath or proper breakfast, your choice of oil ain't gonna make that much difference?

 

You know you can get done for pouring oil on troubled waters? :-D