WW2 Armour Ownership - a murky world?

[ajmac]

Would it be true to say that due to the high prices and rarity that ownership / aquiring WW2 armour is a bit of a murky world of people in the know, dealers, middle men, back handers etc..... I am starting to think so. Kind of takes the fun out of it in my opinion. HOWEVER the enthusiasts and knowledge centres (you know who you are!) far out weigh the murky side of the hobby. My inbox is overflowing with offers of parts, books, photos for the Loyds - that's got to say something.

[Adrian Barrell]

To a degree, yes! I don't think that takes the fun out of it though, it can be quite amusing sometimes.

 

The ideal that some people feel should exist, where all military vehicles should be cheap and easy to find soon goes out the window when they realise just how much time and effort and hence money goes into restoring them. You will be an expert at this!

 

We, as enthusiasts have no more right to ownership of our toys than the rich collectors or indeed the murky men!

 

Those who help each other are the real enthusiasts, as long as we outnumber the others, we'll be alright.:thumbsup:

[Tony B]

Regardless of vehicle type, the 'murk' is about. Such as selling Great War helmets at a boot sale aserting there was still 'skin and brains in them'.

Pushing the Forum Hymn Sheet. It's a duty on all of us to present the good honest side!

[steveo578]

I endorse both Adrians and Tony Bs conclusion. Almost in every sub group there are "murky people" but generally speaking the good almost always outnumbers the bad generally by at least 10 to 1, but anyway the murky b****rs won't come to your notice as they will not extend assistance.

 

Steve

[Tony B]

Problem is Steve, one happy camper may tell one other, one unhappy camper will make sure it is spread around!

[timbo]

As a post war owner I always thought of WW2 armour ownership as a slightly elitist activity - people like adrian have opened my eyes somewhat. I suspect that although the astronomical prices you see can be offputting there are probably quite a lot more vehicles that change hands between people who know each other for a lot less. Like a lot of niche activities I suspect it all gets a lot easier when you've actually got into it and know a few people.

 

I've finally collected enough bits and bobs to start swapping for the interesting bits I want and this is really satisfying.

[ajmac]

"murky people"

Steve,

I wasn't accusing the people of being so, just their practices.... Back in the mid 90's when I was interested in WW2 Home Front history I wrote a letter to the local paper, they phoned up and wanted to do a little article as it was odd to have a young person with such an interest. From that little exposure I had many bits and pieces given to me, I intervied 10 or so Home Guard veterans, it was a great experiance. However I got a phone call from a chap who was very pissed off as as he put it 'some of us make money from this stuff, you can't just go getting it for free', now that made me laugh:D

[Adrian Barrell]

Steve,

However I got a phone call from a chap who was very pissed off as as he put it 'some of us make money from this stuff, you can't just go getting it for free', now that made me laugh:D

 

Exactly my point! Those in it purely for the money soon move on.

[steveo578]

Ajmac

Steve,

I wasn't accusing the people of being so, just their practices....

While not wanting to get holier than thou imo there isn't much difference "by your acts you will be known".

 

When I first got involved with our interest I was fortunate to be told in a long phone call who was naughty- or nice and while cryptic the information given was spot on.

 

Doesn't mean I would ignore those who practices were ify I'm just more aware.

 

Steve

[Tony B]

Great stuff Alistar, it meant the old guys thought what was important to them went to someone who would care for it , not just see the £££££signs. I've ben lucky enough to get given stuff, beacuase you show the interest. What I can't use I make sure goes to somone I know, and trust, that will put it back in context.

[G506]

Those who help each other are the real enthusiasts, as long as we outnumber the others, we'll be alright.:thumbsup:

 

Nicely put, Adrian.

Rcubed, RMS, Chevy and another mate regularly help me out, I would be screwed without them

 

Edited March 9, 2011 by G506

[ArmourWorld]

What myself and my dad enjoy about the hobby is networking with the likes of Adrian and many others at shows like War and Peace. We both love to keep it above board and meet dealers face to face. I think that helps to kill this Murk that some feel is creeping under our beds.

Of course it is there, look at the soldiers selling parts from their CVRT's in Iraq to make personal profit.

 

I think as a hobby this is one of the richest around. People from book worms to engineering masters can have thier own input in to the same hobby. I do not believe you get that in a lot of other hobbies. That is what makes this a great hobby with great people.

[ford 369]

the thing I still find refreshing about the mv hobby is that people are willing to help each other out,this dissappeared from the classic car scene some time ago although it does still survive in the world of bikes

[ArtistsRifles]

the thing I still find refreshing about the mv hobby is that people are willing to help each other out,this dissappeared from the classic car scene some time ago although it does still survive in the world of bikes

 

Problem with the classic car scene was it came to be seen as an investment market and a LOT of vehicles were bought ad shoved into storage by "yuppies". Drove the prices through the roof and broke up the serious owners s as they moved onto ares they could still afford.

 

I hope the investment types never move into the MV world.....

[Degsy]

I think they already have Neil.

[ArtistsRifles]

I think they already have Neil.

 

Fortunately not into the Cold War era mate... WW2 armoured kit - and WW2 German in particular - seems to be the limit of their depredations!

[ferrettkitt]

Fortunately not into the Cold War era mate... WW2 armoured kit - and WW2 German in particular - seems to be the limit of their depredations!

 

 

Jeep Jeeps Jeeps silly money for so little

 

The investment types have been moving in for awhile hence the prices of MV's has remained steady or increased in this recession. Armoured vehicles have increased in price with possible the exception being 432's due to the MOD off loading vehicles.

Edited March 14, 2011 by ferrettkitt

[eddy8men]

there is one good thing to come out of high ww2 armour prices and that is much more vehicles are now considered as viable and on the whole are restored to a high standard as the owners know they will see a return or at least a break even on the cash they've blown into it .

not much good for those trying to get into the scene but you can still get a tank if you're prepared to take on "a challenge". my churchill was only £3500 that's secondhand mondeo money. i know which i'd rather have on my drive

 

eddy

 

ps. as for post ww2 armour those prices will rise as the ripple effect comes into play, might be time to buy that cent you've always wanted

[griff66]

a good ferret with spot on mechanicals and decent paint job has got to be worth 8-9 grandlot of the stuff u can fit in a single garage is going up!

[diver99]

Regardless of vehicle type, the 'murk' is about. Such as selling Great War helmets at a boot sale aserting there was still 'skin and brains in them'.

Pushing the Forum Hymn Sheet. It's a duty on all of us to present the good honest side!

 

There was a similar bad bunch in the medal collector world. Waterloo medals were being renamed to famous regiments and actions. That particular group now live in Spain.

Edited March 14, 2011 by diver99