Lubrication.. What are you using?

[antarmike]

The syncromesh blocking rings in the series Gearbox are "Yellow metal"

[TooTallMike]

The syncromesh blocking rings in the series Gearbox are "Yellow metal"

 

I thought I remembered thrust washer type components in yellow metal from when I rebuilt my series 1 'box. So how do they get away with using EP oil?

 

After a series of interesting conversations with representatives of various oil suppliers we've established that we require a mild EP oil. Apparently this will have less of an effect on the components at risk.

[Grumpy]

There are yellow metal thrust bearings on the lay shaft in a series gearbox along with yellow metal thrusts in the transfer box. Using EP 90 that has a GL rating of 4 or less is fine with yellow metals its only when you go to GL 5 or above that the sulphur content of the oil causes problems with erosion. :-D

[Markheliops]

Top banana Grumpy - that's exactly what Comma Oil told me. :banana:

 

Apparently, a GL4 rated EP oil has less additives than a GL5 EP oil - hence GL5 EP will damage yellow metal products - a GL4 EP oil will not - and that's official.

 

Also spoke to Penrite Oil who confirmed the above -

 

So all those paying for a single grade SAE90 - check out what you can use because a mild EP 90 - GL4 - will be cheaper than a non EP oil.

 

Markheliops

[antarmike]

The front axle drive shaft in the Aux Box runs in a bronze bush presssed into the end of the Rear Axle drive shaft, They turn at almost the same speed when out of 4 wheel drive, unless you fit free wheeling front hubs, which stop the front shaft turning. I was always worried about the long term durablity of this bush when I ran Series LR with freewheeling hubs...

[R Cubed]

Mark,

 

I'm currently using Morris Lubricants.

supreme 30 engine oil

AG sae90 gear oil.

 

http://www.morrislubricants.co.uk

 

Jan Gilbert. 01743 237516.

 

These guys do supply a lot of the vintage lorry boy's and also steam engine types, :-) friendly to talk with, as well.

 

No involvement, on my part with company, just a satisfied customer. :-D

 

Hope it helps.

 

Andy

 

 

Hear Hear

 

I have been using the same combination for the last 6 years or so and every year do a whole oil change before the new season engine, g/box, tfer/box, axles.

 

All good and can get the olis in 25 Ltr drums..

[No Signals]

OK chaps what is the modern equivalent of C600 in a gearbox? 'Fraid this means nothing to me. (Bedford MW) A manual I have is overwritten H (undecypherable) 90. Maybe this is 'hypoy'? Anybody out there in the know? Is it sae or ep? Ignorance is not always bliss

[Richard Farrant]

OK chaps what is the modern equivalent of C600 in a gearbox? 'Fraid this means nothing to me. (Bedford MW) A manual I have is overwritten H (undecypherable) 90. Maybe this is 'hypoy'? Anybody out there in the know? Is it sae or ep? Ignorance is not always bliss

 

 

Right, this one is up my street !

 

C600 was a Straight SAE 140 gear oil ( ie no high load additives ). I think that during WW2, or at least the early part, the British military did not have Extreme Pressure gear oils. after the war, EP or Hypoid oils were then issued to War Office spec. The MW would have used Hypoid 90 grade, this is probably the word you cannot read. So you can either use Straight 140 gear oil, which is a bit heavy in a gearbox in low temperatures, or normal EP90 or Hypoy 90 gear oil. As I cannot recollect any "yellow" metal in gearbox or axle, there is no issue with the GL spec regarding EP oils.

 

Richard

[No Signals]

Thanks Richard. Top man.

[Degsy]

140...better than sawdust for quieting a noisy gearbox (as used by Arfer Daley types) and the universal cure for leaky front hubs on series Land Rovers:evil::-D

[Richard Farrant]

140...better than sawdust for quieting a noisy gearbox (as used by Arfer Daley types) and the universal cure for leaky front hubs on series Land Rovers:evil::-D

 

 

Wonderful stuff, still use it on some vehicles, but a sod to pour in cold weather.

[Degsy]

I've always used Morris Supreme 30 in the engine and sae 90 in the transmission of the GMC but had a suspicion that EP90 had been used when it was out of my ownership so changed it yesterday. There were definitely 2 distinctly different oils in all the units they had not mixed although I had driven it to warm the oil before draining. Incidentally I was quoted the same trade price for EP 90 or SAE90 25L £41.30, the last drum I bought a couple of years ago was £20! I asked Dick Shepard a couple of years ago what oil he used in the engines of his large collection of GMC's and was surprised when he swore by 20/50 and said he had never had any problems in any of his trucks so I suppose yer pays yer money and takes yer choice.

[Richard Farrant]

I've always used Morris Supreme 30 in the engine and sae 90 in the transmission of the GMC

 

I asked Dick Shepard a couple of years ago what oil he used in the engines of his large collection of GMC's and was surprised when he swore by 20/50 and said he had never had any problems in any of his trucks so I suppose yer pays yer money and takes yer choice.

 

Hi Degsy,

 

I use Elite 30 in old engines where the filtration system is hit and miss. In later engines, also use Supreme 30. I recollect when the 20w/50 oils were introduced, they were a direct replacement for SAE30 detergent oil. Providing the engine is clean inside, then 20/50 should be alright.

[Degsy]

Wonderful stuff, still use it on some vehicles, but a sod to pour in cold weather.

 

 

We used to keep our supply in the tall thick glass oil bottles (Esso or Shell?) which we then used to warm up in a pan of hot water, worked a treat, it then poured like a 20/50:)

[Degsy]

Hi Degsy,

 

I use Elite 30 in old engines where the filtration system is hit and miss. In later engines, also use Supreme 30. I recollect when the 20w/50 oils were introduced, they were a direct replacement for SAE30 detergent oil. Providing the engine is clean inside, then 20/50 should be alright.

 

 

It was the detergent properties of the 20/50 that always bothered me, plus the fact that a straight 30 was what the engines had been designed to use. Since that time of course technology has improved out of all recognition so that a straight 30 today must be vastly superior to that of the 1940s. This of course is only my opinion but based on running all sorts of vehicles from 2 stroke scooters through 1930's cars, all sorts of both old and modern tractors and earthmoving plant and trucks from the forties up to modern stuff.

[Richard Farrant]

It was the detergent properties of the 20/50 that always bothered me, plus the fact that a straight 30 was what the engines had been designed to use. .

 

 

Last post before signing off :yawn:

 

On any of these old engines with filters that are only a bleed off the main gallery, I use a straight non-detergent oil ( saying that, the oil companies now tell me that a very small amount of detergent is used in modern straight oils ). My theory is that any contamination will fall to the sump bottom, rather than be carried around as detergent oils do. As modern engines have full flow filters, contaminates are quickly caught in the filter. On talking to Morris's technical dept, my theory was proved correct. Providing sumps are drained regularly, no problems should develope.

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

My Cats should have straight 30 but i do use multi grade mainly because of the cost.i spoke to Cat who couldnt see a problem.Each engine has 2 filters holding about a gallon each,oil changes happen whilst in use,we use about 4 litres every hundred miles.total capacity is about 20 galls.I would like to use 30 see what the difference is in consumption.Trouble is even trade to me Morris's is a lot different in price.

You might think consumption is high but you have to remember we are only 200 revs

away from max,0.75 mile to a gallon and engine room temp has been 55c These engines came from 70 ft gunboats where they used 3.

[Degsy]

Yet another really interesting and informative thread Richard, we are very lucky to have the benefit of your freely given advice and experience. I hadn't heard of Elite before and hadn't been on the Morris site for quite some time so paid a visit. According to the spec the only difference between Elite and Supreme is that Elite has more anti foaming agent to allow it's use in M/C gearboxes so for my purposes Supreme is the correct choice.

[Richard Farrant]

I hadn't heard of Elite before and hadn't been on the Morris site for quite some time so paid a visit. According to the spec the only difference between Elite and Supreme is that Elite has more anti foaming agent to allow it's use in M/C gearboxes

 

Hi Degsy,

 

I thought that Elite was for vintage era engines, anyway, I use it in pre-45 engines and pre-selector gearboxes. I found Morris to be a very helpful company, they had a distribution depot in the same yard that I work in, for a time and I was amazed at the varied types of oils, greases, etc. that they marketed.

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

They recomended something which was ring free(sounds nasty)for the cats,i wonder if the oil consumption on the multigrade is causing ring damage thro ash,but no evidence of it when i did the recent works,any ideas.?

[Degsy]

Hi Degsy,

 

I thought that Elite was for vintage era engines, anyway, I use it in pre-45 engines and pre-selector gearboxes. I found Morris to be a very helpful company, they had a distribution depot in the same yard that I work in, for a time and I was amazed at the varied types of oils, greases, etc. that they marketed.

Richard, no criticism was intended I knew you would have a good reason for using it, sounds ideal for Wilson boxes and absolutely no reason why it can't be used in engines, probably just costs a little more. As regards their range , it really is amazing, I used to pass their works right in the centre of Shrewsbury, very old building, not much imagination needed to see old traction engines emerging through the gateway, perhaps thats why they still manufacture a range for steam powered vehicles.

[Richard Farrant]

They recomended something which was ring free(sounds nasty)for the cats,i wonder if the oil consumption on the multigrade is causing ring damage thro ash,but no evidence of it when i did the recent works,any ideas.?

 

Catweazle,

 

This is ringing bells to me. I think it might be the reason that CAT and Detroit Diesel, amongst others, recommended monogrades, because multigrades produced ash. May be wrong, but will have to search through my "technical library" :-D

[Degsy]

They recomended something which was ring free(sounds nasty)for the cats,i wonder if the oil consumption on the multigrade is causing ring damage thro ash,but no evidence of it when i did the recent works,any ideas.?

 

 

Ring Free is the trade name for their range of modern oils, I've used a lot in trucks.

[Richard Farrant]

Richard, no criticism was intended

 

perhaps thats why they still manufacture a range for steam powered vehicles.

 

 

None taken, Degsy,

 

I do not think there is much difference in price between Elite and Supreme, both are for prewar era engines.

 

One thing in Morris range, I spotted in their depot.........lamp oil, used by the railways in their oil lamps.

 

Morris used to have a Sentinel steam lorry in their livery.

[Degsy]

I think they still have the Sentinel but I haven't seen it for a long time.