Jimh Posted July 15, 2009 Author Share Posted July 15, 2009 A few more photos before things go too far: The transmission brake drum and prop shaft in situ. You'll notice a few bolts missing which is why it is only in situ. Brake air pipes in place and buttoned up. You'll also notice... ...that the winch frame and drum are in. The rollers on the pressure arms need set up now because they were all over the place before. One was so far out it was binding the drum up. Just to show that progress was going too quickly all the hoses got buttoned up on the cooling system yesterday. So we filled it in order to set the float on the pot and hey presto one of the radiator tubes is leaking. Damn damn dammity damn. Fortunately it is one right at the front so it shouldn't be a big job to braze it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 With a bit of luck it should look a little more Pioneer like by the end of the weekend so I'd better put up some pictures of the last few days progress. Winch pretty much back together. Pressure arms on and the rollers set up, gearbox and serving rollers on and the brake mechanism refitted. I thought htis made a good before and after shot. Not finished yet but encouraging to see how horrid it looked a few months ago. Apart from the green, that is. *hits head on desk repeatedly* Winch clutch and brake. Pressure arm with the roller in the right place this time. Neate brake repaired, functioning properly and fitted. That'll hold it. That's all for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abn deuce Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 I m sure she's looking better and more complete as each repaired and or repainted part is added to the puzzle . Its in better shape now than when it left the factory ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted July 18, 2009 Author Share Posted July 18, 2009 That'll hold progress for a bit. Busy bolting stuff on and generally making it look like a Pioneer (pictures to follow) and then I thought I'd take the radiator out again to repair the leaking tube. We weren't too sure where the leak was so we filled the rad again. We stopped counting at 12 leaking tubes. Rats. I think the phrase is wouldn't hold small coal. We'll need to replace the lot which quite apart from anything isn't going to be cheap. Why wasn't it leaking before? Was all the mud that was in there keeping the holes blocked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Why wasn't it leaking before? Was all the mud that was in there keeping the holes blocked? Quite possibly! I did notice when I viewed the truck that the radiator was empty. Can you still get those round still tube type cores for the radiator? Wouldn't look right without them as it's such a prominent feature of the Pioneer. Would hate to think of the cost. I was quoted nearly a grand for a plain core in my Ward La France Radiator and opted to repair it instead. You could try the K seal stuff and see if it does the trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted July 18, 2009 Author Share Posted July 18, 2009 The finned tube isn't a problem - it is still in common use in industry - but the cost is. Not cheap. In desperation we thought about junk-o-rad-o-seal but you're only putting off the inevitable. We'll have to get a lot of solder in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Soldering is the way I went with the K seal as a back up just in case I'd missed anywhere and as a guard against future leaks. Not sure how much is still in there as my waterpump is still leaking slightly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 As I've said already it's been a mixed weekend. Most of the back together now. Just waiting for the sping to go in the drawbar hook latch. Oh dear. That wasn't in the plan. Cab frame bolted in place. I know the picture is dark - I didn't turn the lights on. We had apiece of the pipe lying around from the oil cooler we had bent up for the Sentinel's sump. A quick sum says we need about 35 metres of this stuff. It should look nice when it is done. Cab side with the window and semaphore arm fitted. Made a start on the wood for the floor. I was raking through some photos trying to find where a mystery bracket went and I came across this snap. It is useful to remind yourself just how horrid it looked when it started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Absolutely awe inspiring stuff. Any ideas about the next project?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 There are a few things in the pending file including a Merryweather steamer but I have a hankering for a bigish AEC of some description. A Matador would be nice but I think I'd rather have a Militant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 There are a few things in the pending file including a Merryweather steamer but I have a hankering for a bigish AEC of some description. A Matador would be nice but I think I'd rather have a Militant. Militant MK3 recovery. Plenty to keep you occupied there. I considered one but was put off a bit by the complexity and the propensity for rot in the cab areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 I'd kill for a Mk3 Recovery. Proper wagon that. The only downside is that I'd need to go and get an HGV licence. Still tempting, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scammell4199 Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I can't work out how you do it all so quickly!! I've all but finished sorting the barn my Scammell is in, so on with the restoration now. While re-organising the contents of the barn at the weekend, I found the front weights carrier, front hitch bracket and front spring going rusty after they have already been blasted and painted, allbeit nearly 2 years ago - very demoralising!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 There are a few projects here which have been sitting round doing nothing for a lot, lot longer than that. The Pioneer is going quickly because there hasn't been a lot to slow us down. It isn't as if the engine has needed hundreds of man hours sunk into it just to fit the big ends and balance the pistons. However, in the noble tradition of speaking too soon here is some pictures of a broken bit. The first thing which we weren't expecting was that although the wire loops on the radiator tubes were copper the pipe was brass. The other thing we weren't expcting was just how brittle and work hardened it has become. What you may also notice from the picture above but shown better here is that the failure is quite old. It mst have been hanging on by the skin of its teeth and taking it to bits and cleaning things out has made the failures more apparent. This is just one tube of about 14 which have failed completely. The rest can't be far behind. You can see that it wasn't just one crack, either. Fortunately the finned tubing seems to be pretty easy to come by. We're waiting for a price back but I suspect that it isn't going to be cheap. Lessons to be learned? Not a lot except don't be too surprised when yours gives up the ghost. If yours isn't leaking and you don't want to take the risk then I'd avoid doing anything to the radiator at all and let sleeping dogs lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 You are lucky they are helical wrapped fins Jim, my pal had to build a Tilling Stevens rad from scratch making patterns and castings for the tanks then individually soldering hundreds of fins to new tubes.:sweat: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 There is a nice surprise. P.A.K. Engineering Ltd making the tubes up to the original dimensions ready to fit straight in for just under £8.50 plus VAT per tube. Spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 I've just been idly unpeeling that piece of tube in the picture and in that one section of one tube there were three more near identical fractures. All old. It begins with B and rhymes with luggered. Restoration blog? It's getting mopre like a restoration Twitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abn deuce Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Guess you might get a few pounds for turning in all the old copper for scrap ....no where near what the new tubes will cost you .At least the replacements are available and will not be of the one of a kind custom hand made sort.Best to get a few extras as you may find more as you rebuild the radiator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted July 23, 2009 Author Share Posted July 23, 2009 We were working on the assumption that if this one is bad then the others can't be much better so they are all getting replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon_M Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 £8.50p plus VAT per tube? Just going to be a case of a huge sigh and pay the bill, isn't it? You are never going to need another set, and I suppose it is lucky you can get them off the shelf at that price as I don't think you could make them for that. Gordon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niels v Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) The reason that they fail is somthing call selective corrosion, where the zink in the brass are is dissolved selectively, due to the fact that copper and zink corrode at a different rate. it also call dealloying and in the case with brass dezincification. its also commenly seen in grey cast iron, just called graphitic corrosion. here the Iron corrode and leavs the carbon. the object keeps its shape but its mechanical properties ( strenght, mass) is severly reduced. Edited July 23, 2009 by Niels v Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niels v Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 here is an example of selective corrosion in brass. the area that is yellowish is the undamaged brass and the redish area is where the zink has corroded away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted July 23, 2009 Author Share Posted July 23, 2009 £8.50p plus VAT per tube? Just going to be a case of a huge sigh and pay the bill, isn't it? You are never going to need another set, and I suppose it is lucky you can get them off the shelf at that price as I don't think you could make them for that. Gordon They make them up to order. You tell them your tube size, the overall outside diameter, the number of fins per turn and the number of turns per foot and they make them up. It must be an entertaining machine to watch in action. The tubes arrive the right amount of bare tube at each end so you just pop them in the tube sheet and solder them up. I was expecting them to be a lot more expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted July 23, 2009 Author Share Posted July 23, 2009 The reason that they fail is somthing call selective corrosion, where the zink in the brass are is dissolved selectively, due to the fact that copper and zink corrode at a different rate. it also call dealloying and in the case with brass dezincification. its also commenly seen in grey cast iron, just called graphitic corrosion. here the Iron corrode and leavs the carbon. the object keeps its shape but its mechanical properties ( strenght, mass) is severly reduced. It makes me wonder why they used brass tube at all. I assume it is because copper was in short supply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon_M Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 It makes me wonder why they used brass tube at all. I assume it is because copper was in short supply. Brass has much more structural strength than un-alloyed Copper. You could make these tubes out of Copper no problem, but they would fall apart if dinged at all.:coffee: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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