restoration Dyson 4 wheel tailer restoration

[HWade]

Well I must say this has all been very interesting about these trailers and its amazing how many different types there were.Well just to let you all know that I collected the Dyson Radar/ Search light trailer from Tonys this morning I hithched it up to the Dodge Carryall and with a friend following me behind we set off.It was a bit of a bumpy ride due to the flat spots on the trailer tyres but we got back all in one piece.Now the hard work begins I am going to start with all the braking system and take it from there, lots of pics to follow soon.Regards Howard

Edited November 9, 2008 by HWade

[6 X 6]

Curiouser and curiouser.

 

Antony, I can imagine how busy you are with your various restoration projects so it is very much appreciated that you found the time to visit this other trailer and post these 'photos. Thank you.

 

Both the differences, and the similarities, between these two trailers have some significance. I mean, if they were identical that would suggest one possible answer but they're not, so that suggests another possible explanation. More head scratching.

 

I own a very usual WW11 trailer and was not until I had a photograph of it published in a newspaper local to the area where I acquired it that it was correctly identified. I wonder if some retired gent living locally can remember these trailers being used before their farm days.

[antarmike]

this second trailer is I am fairly certain a crane float trailer, (a name also given to a totally different swan necked low loding trailer of 60 tons capacity, that runs on two rows of 1600 x 20's)

 

If it is I hepled to restore one many years ago. Pickfords amongst others used them. They are not military. They could be used for small, indivisible loads, but could also be used in pairs as bogeys. If, right in the centre of the deck there is a socket, (about 3 inches in diameter) where a pin under a bolster can be inserted, it is more certain that is what it is. These trailers were used , in pairs, with pivoting cross bolsters for carrying long columns, beams, pressure vessels etc

[Antony]

Thank you for you kind words 6X6, I have known about the other trailer for a long time and the interest in these trailers generated on HMVF just induced me to go and investigate. I still had time to play on sunday!

 

Having seen the other trailer I am even more convinced that both of them are more or less as built in the factory, and not heavily modified by an agricultural engineer or farmer. I took a very knowledgable and well respected military vehicle restorer with me on Saturday, whose opinion was the same as mine, that both trailers are ex WW2 British army. Antar Mikes suggestion is a good one, but there is no sign of a centre pivot arrangement on either trailer. Richard Farrant found a similar trailer described for use by The Navy, which gives strength to my thoughts, but what could these things have been used for? I think a clue is at the rear of both these trailers, they both have a heavy duty flat bar edgeways up for hooking ramps on to, and with evidence of jack fixings on the rear corners and indeed a screw jack still on mine, I think they were for driving a vehicle up, and very likely something tracked. Possibly a crawler up to the size of a D6 or TD 14 or dare I suggest a small Tank the size of a Stuart.

 

By the way N.O.S, I will bare all when the dodge is finished!

 

Thanks to everyone who has responded.

 

Antony.

[gritineye]

 

Not a military trailer but a similar but earlier type of trailer being steered by sheer manual strength!

 

http://greattube.net/video/89116/Scammell-1950s-heavy-haulage-h-e-rudd.html

 

Obviously the working man couldn't be trusted to speak in his own words back then! He would have told it a bit different I think.

[6 X 6]

Thank you Gritineye. Compelling evidence. I actually have this film on DVD but it's a while since I last viewed it and I didn't notice the great similarity between these bogie trailers and the one Antony has. Antarmike suggested these multi-wheel trailers could be used both as bogies, and as a single trailer, in an earlier post. All we need now is a nice period photograph of a Stuart Tank sitting on one these trailers and everyone is happy.

[HWade]

Well I had a day off today and decided to make a start on the trailer, I decided to pull the front axle from the trailer this came apart very well, I then used my old grey fergie to pull the rest of the trailer out of the workshop. I then set to taking the hubs off and taking the braking system apart, I managed to get all of the drawbar apart as well.i have managed to free off all of the braking, I was supprised but alot of the nuts and bolts came off very easily even though the trailer had stood out for years. The stearing joint was in very good order full oil and grease.I have taken a few pics more info to come as and when, i do more. Howard.

Edited November 12, 2008 by HWade

[6 X 6]

One isn't always so fortunate. You could just as easily have found those brake drums full of mud and so badly corroded that they were unserviceable.

 

This trailer actually has quite an elegant chassis/frame. Have you made contact with forum member ackack who is currently restoring a similar/identical trailer ? Thanks for posting the pix.

[HWade]

Hello 6x6 I didnt reolise anybody else was restoring one, as you said I was very lucky with the serviceable parts,I hope to get the front section in red oxide primer over the weekend.

 

Regards

 

 

Howard

[ackack]

I can't be sure yet but I suspect that the small trailer is ex-searchlight. There were many variations and manufacturers. Will try to dig out some photos of survivors. Most of these early light wartime trailers ran on WD split rims, but most of the larger stuff was commercial pattern, this enabled 2 tyres to mounted back to back as they are on my No3 Mk2 radar trailer. My tyres are 36" x 8" HP tyres, there are 6 and the trailers weighs 9.5 tons!

My trailer is made from 8" x 3" and 6" x 3" channel making it very heavy.

The round hole in the middle, are there any fixing holes in this? I think it is probably to allow something to protrude below the bed perhaps electrical connections/sliprings etc. rather than a central pivot point.

Most wartime trailers would have had a brass ID plate front nearside, look for screw/rivet holes. Braking systems on wartime trailers were very simple, cable braking early years, then air-assisted came in later especially with heavier types. Look for evidence of cables/ air pipes etc. Also a handbrake was usually fitted.

 

Looks like the larger trailer should have 16 wheels again these would have been commercial pattern. The bed doesn't look original and seems much lighter construction than the axles. The jacks appear to be for supporting the trailer whilst loading not for levelling during use as in radar/searchlight trailers, these are normally very complicated screw jacks.

We have a 20 ton 16-wheeler trailer by Multiwheeler (also made by SMT) in our yard and that has a slight step frame towards the front. This was designed to carry plant or small tanks at a push. This runs on 29" x 8" tyres.

Can we see some more photos, also some dimensions would be usefull such as track, wheelbase, bed sizes, height above ground etc.

 

Most of the trailers in army use seem to be well documented, those in RAF and RN less so.

Don't forget Dyson and Taskers have been around for years and made thousands of trailers during peacetime so it might be very difficult to find much more information.

 

Try rubbing down the paint on different parts to see if they match, i.e. axles, wheels, springs, bed etc.

[ackack]

Here is one well known survivor

[HWade]

Hello Ackack

 

What a fantastic looking search light, the small dyson trailor I am restoring should have as you said the single wheels.There is still a plate on my trailer I shall post a pic of it.I dont think I shall find a search light or radar for it, but I do know the whereabouts of a small military cabin, so i may well put that on it.Regards the brakes on mine they work off the A frame by pushing and pulling a linkage, there is also a hand brake on they same linkage.

 

Regards

 

 

Howard

[ackack]

can't quite read the writing, is there a contract number?

[HWade]

Hello Ackack

 

I am over the workshop tomorrow, I will go over the plate with a wire brush and see if there is a contract number.

 

 

Regards

 

 

Howard

[abn deuce]

Perhaps if you were to use a hot air gun and or mild paint remover in addition it would be worth a try , sometimes those wire brushes alone can do more harm than good.

[HWade]

Hello Ackack

 

I cleaned up the plate on the trailer and it reads as follows Trailer 4 Wheeled.'R' Mk 11.

J.B.&Co Ltd. Contract No 5932. I am taking a guess but does the letter R stand for RADAR.

 

I have taken another pic of the plate have a look but the contract number is very small this was just put on the plate with a punch. Here is a few more pics of parts in red oxide and olive drab.

 

Regards

 

Howard

[Richard Farrant]

Hello Ackack

 

I cleaned up the plate on the trailer and it reads as follows Trailer 4 Wheeled.'R' Mk 11.

J.B.&Co Ltd. Contract No 5932. I am taking a guess but does the letter R stand for RADAR.

 

 

 

Howard,

 

This is a Brockhouse trailer, not a Dyson. census no's X4651176 to 4651182, and X4655101 to 4655200, Trailer, 3 ton, 4 wheeled, Type "R"

[HWade]

Hello Richard

 

Does this mean that brockhouse use Dyson Running gear as the wheel centres have dyson on and also the main bearing cover on the steering joint has dyson on it and also the main front axle has dyson cast in to it. What I do need for it are wheels I have been looking for some bedford RL wheels, any suggestions.

 

Regards

 

 

Howard

[Richard Farrant]

Hello Richard

 

Does this mean that brockhouse use Dyson Running gear as the wheel centres have dyson on and also the main bearing cover on the steering joint has dyson on it and also the main front axle has dyson cast in to it. What I do need for it are wheels I have been looking for some bedford RL wheels, any suggestions.

 

 

Howard,

 

All I am going on, is the Contract number list, showing it and other contracts for that particulat type of trailer trailer as Brockhouse, confirmed by your plate with "J.B. & Co." which is J. Brockhouse and Company. During wartime there was co-operation between companies and it is possible that Dyson supplied the running gear for the trailer.

 

Looking at a copy of the War Office Data Book for Vehicles, dated 1944 and it shows similar trailers, 3 ton 4 whld for radar, ack ack, etc. as having 10.50.16 tyres, so the RL wheels would be a bit big, Bedford OY or Austin K2 would be the correct size. But if you really want RL wheels, contact Withams, who were breaking Green Goddesses and had RL wheels with good tyres for sale, 11.00-20 size.

[HWade]

Hello Richard

 

Thanks for the information I suppose its possible that Dyson may have made the trailers for J.Brockhouse under contract. Regarding the wheels I would like the right size so if anyone has some Brockhouse trailer wheels or Austin K2 wheels then let me know. I have just got in from the workshop I went there early this morning and did a few hours I have fitted the brakes back togeather just got the linkage to put on then the hubs can go back on.Well thats it for now.

 

Regards

 

Howard

[ackack]

Trailer type "R" is possibly receiver, and is most probably a radar receiver. Early to mid war radar systems had separate receivers and transmitters mounted on trailers. The transmitter trailer was a type "T". However later systems were combined so "R" could just stand for radar.

 

These were made by most manufacturers including Dyson, Brockhouse, Tasker and Scammell. Because they were so busy I wouldn't be surprised if Dyson supplied some chassis to be kitted out with bodies under the Brockhouse contract. Be carefull though I have found mistakes in the 1944 B-vehicle census book!

Both of my trailers were built by Taskers, but bodies were built by Metro-Cammell.

 

Haven't been able to find out which radar system yours had yet, many were fitted to larger 5 ton, 4-wheeled.

Edited November 18, 2008 by ackack
missed something out

[HWade]

Hello ackack thanks for that info, I am not to sure what to think it has that brockhouse plate on it, yet all running gear ect is dyson who knows.Well I hope to have the front end complete this weekend all being well.I am still on the look out for 4 wheels so if any body can help, please get in touch.

 

Regards Howard

[ackack]

I'll have a look but I think I've only got 10.50 x 20's and they're are a bit rough.

Have you found out what the original colour was, mine were BS381 shade 499 Service Brown previously known as SCC2.

[HWade]

Hello Ackack

 

I have found traces of what I CALL dark Bronze Green I have quite alot of some olive drab so I have started to use this but if I choose to do bronze this will do as a base colour.

 

 

Thanks

 

 

Howard

Edited November 21, 2008 by HWade

[6 X 6]

I am still on the look out for 4 wheels so if any body can help, please get in touch.

Regards Howard

 

10.50-16 tyres but does anyone have a photograph of the type of wheels Howard needs ? I occasionally see serviceable wheels of an ex military type on farm trailers. It would help if I know what pattern of wheel I'm looking out for.