Bedford MK/MJ

[chevpol]

Hi all,

 

if you downrate a mk/mj to 7.5 tonnes, what can you legally carry and or tow to stay within the law?

 

Mark

[Tony B]

Not even sure you can downrate it. The problem is that no matter what you do the manufacturer says' it is that weight'. I know there used to be the old trick of taking assisiters off and then bolting back on,that was stopped a long time ago. When it went on the weight of vehicle, I've seen spare wheel carriers, passengers seats taken out and all sorts of games to get them 1lb under 3 tons. Weights now are the gross of vehicle and load. Towing depends on date of licence, mine allows for some weird reason 12.5 tons gross. Most are marked at 8.25 tons, so vehicle at 7.5 trailer at 1.25 tons.

[Richard Farrant]

Not even sure you can downrate it. The problem is that no matter what you do the manufacturer says' it is that weight'. I know there used to be the old trick of taking assisiters off and then bolting back on,that was stopped a long time ago.

 

 

Are you sure you know this subject? :nono:

 

Mark,

I suggest you look at this website under their menu heading of "re-rating"

www.svtech.co.uk

[Tony B]

I didn't think a vehicle could be downrated now. In Jersey and a long time ago over here, a vehicle could be downrated by taking the spring assister blocks off. This was done a lot on horseboxes. The idea was though you weren't carrying the weight the assisiters improved the ride. Then the regulations changed and if the assisiter was on the vehicle then it counted as a hevier weight and needed an HGV. Then again if the holes for spring assisters were there the weight was taken to be the heavier weight. At that point most people gave up. Bear in mind most boxes were not bought new but were old commercially used chassis with a horse box body fitted. I suppose an early MK might just be pre 1960, but the MJ? The argument also comes up with TK and MK the added weight of the front axle drive, does it take the vehicle over 7.5 tones gross. If a vehicle can be downrated it opens up an awful lot of possibilitys.

Edited July 6, 2008 by Tony B

[Stormin]

Mark

 

Recently downrated mine to 7.5 tonnes using the SVtech Kit. Very easy to fit but expensive for what you get, four pieces of plate and a few nuts and bolts. You are paying mostly for the design and admin.

Mine has a finished gross vehicle weight of 7.5 tonnes and an unladen weight of 5.3 tonnes so leaves 2.2 tonnes of carrying capacity on the back. This is for the basic drop side flat bed. If you have hood and sticks you will lose a bit more carrying capacity. If it's got an altas crane on forget it.

With a normal car licence I can tow upto 750kg unbraked trailer behind the truck. Not much, but anymore, even a caravan puts you into Class 1 territory same requirements as for an artic. If you've got a later licence you may be able to tow more having taken the towing test.

Hope this helps.

 

Norman

[Richard Farrant]

I suppose an early MK might just be pre 1960, but the MJ? The argument also comes up with TK and MK the added weight of the front axle drive, does it take the vehicle over 7.5 tones gross.

 

The Bedford MK did not enter military service until about 1970, then about 1977 the MJ came in. Gross weight of a MK is 9.45 tonne (inc. canopy and hoops). It is not unheard of to have one of these downrated, if you are not using it as a commercial load carrier, but as a historic collectors vehicle, then losing 2 tonne payload, matters very little. The body is heavy and an alloy flat bed would help, but again not if you want it for what it is .........a military vehicle.

Edited July 6, 2008 by Richard Farrant
added info

[Tony B]

A lot now depends on when you took your licence. The DVLA page is here, as usual aboput as clear as mud. http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/WhatCanYouDriveAndYourObligations/DG_4022499

 

My liecnce was originally obtained in 1974. It does give me C1 (7.5 tonne mam) plus C1+E (E being the trailer entitilment code on any catergory now) Train weight, ie vehicle and trailer on C1+E is now listed asd 8.25 tonnes.

You can get an upgrade E entiltilment for an ordinary B licence, the caravan club organise such courese. This would now only cover you on the catergory you upgraded though.

Edited July 6, 2008 by Tony B

[Degsy]

when you passed a driving test has got nothing to do with downrating the gross weight of a vehicle which is quite legal and if you had read the information in the link you posted you would know this. To drive a vehicle or vehicle plus trailer with a MAM of 12.5 tonnes you would need an LGV entitlement on your licence and even then I don't think specific weights such as you mention are printed anywhere on the licence. Stick to bus driving.

[Tony B]

Degsey, I was taking the info of my licence. Since recent legislation changes licences have got very complicated. Yes I drive a bus, which means I'm directly responsobile for any where up to a couple of hundered lives everyday. I'm also used to ignoring abuse from various scrotes. The whole thing about de reating is relevant round here, dropping in and out of the Low Emissions Zone every two hundered yards, depending on what you are driving it a nightmare, one moment legal then those ***** signs.

It is now down to the 7.5 ton mark, so if I can get the loory box below that it would be worth it. The total load never actually exceeds two ton, but a horse is a bulky object.

[chevpol]

cheers for that

 

Mark

[Nissedasapewt]

Hi Not trying to break up the party but digging a little deeper on the DVLA site (I'm interested in downplating my vehicle to 3.5 tonnes) led me to this section:

 

 

Maximum authorised mass

 

The term maximum authorised mass (MAM), which is also known as gross weight and permissible maximum weight, is the maximum weight of the vehicle that may be used on the road including the maximum load the vehicle may safely carry. This is normally shown on a plate fitted to the vehicle.

 

If a vehicle is unlikely to be used at its potential maximum weight most vehicles may be downplated, i.e. the vehicles springs or other components can be changed, so that only a lighter load can be carried. The maximum authorised mass or gross weight is a factor in determining what driving entitlement is required.

 

 

on this page:

 

http://tinyurl.com/69mpy3

[Degsy]

Mark the best thing you can do is check with your local test station to see what they require you to do to the vehicle to down plate it, I have heard of vehicles being downplated recently without any alterations to springs etc.

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

Hi mark ,i think this is a complex subject,allthough some members have experience of this i think you should use the official sites and authorities,every one is looking for an angle ,i think the days of all this dodging is coming to an end,people caught abusing the system will make it even more difficult for everyone else,WHEN PLOD PULL YOU UP ITS NO GOOD SAYING TONY B SAID IT WAS OK Let us know the outcome,so many people ask questions and we never hear the end result,cheers John.

[julezee001]

In my limited experience of "Plod" dealing with vehicle regulations related vehicles of any sort on the side of the road, they rarely know more than the general public.

 

The reasons for getting it right when you are on the road, is for when something goes seriously wrong, thats when the experts get involved and ask for the correct paperwork etc.

 

Obviously downrating a vehicle is nearly always to fit within a persons licence constraints, and as far as I understand is largely a paperwork excercise changing the gross vehicle weight, as described in various threads already, and has no effect on the unladen weight.

 

As said also in the previous thread it is all a can of worms as there are so many permutations of licence (depends when you first passed a test?), vehicle weights, vehicle types, vehicle age, registration class, M.O.T. requirements etc.

 

It would be helpful if someone could provide a definitive guide for military vehicle owners of all types of vehicles...... A very brave and very bored someone.

 

Finally very briefly on the subject of driving licences, there was a time when people who passed their test before "1 Jan 97 " (I think?)had to be careful to check their entitlements if changing to a photocard one, as the DVLA were good at leaving off many of them, including bike for many unfortunate people.

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

 

The reasons for getting it right when you are on the road, is for when something goes seriously wrong, thats when the experts get involved and ask for the correct paperwork etc.

Finally very briefly on the subject of driving licences, there was a time when people who passed their test before "1 Jan 97 " (I think?)had to be careful to check their entitlements if changing to a photocard one, as the DVLA were good at leaving off many of them, including bike for many unfortunate people.

Both very valid points.

[Tony B]

Presumably any change to the vehicle has to be such that it cannot be easily changed back? The other thing if you are lowering the weight class the MOT class could come down as well?

[Stormin]

I enquired with VOSA and they sent me the list of recognized companies that had approved conversions. Rang a few and some of them didn't even know what a Bedford MJ was let alone have a kit. Others said they would need to design a kit from scratch. Eventually settled on SVTech as they had the kit off the shelf. They send you the bits which are easy to fit then send off the relevant design paperwork to VOSA. You get an appointment back to take your vehicle in for a Ten minute inspection once the kit is fitted and recieve nice new laminated plating certificate.

If I wanted to replate at the original weight it would be a simple matter of removing four bolted on plates and paying for a replate, about £13. The chassis plates are brightly coloured Red on rear and Yellow on front so are readily identifiable to someone in the know. Thet are not so intrusive as to spoil the look of the vehicle.

It's a simple if rather expensive conversion. This is not a recommendation for SVtech as my plates came the wrong lenth and had to be cut and re-drilled. Also my test paperwork didn't arrive and I missed my test, had to book another appointment.

No change in the MOT class it is still heavy goods and cheaper test than a car. Vehicle excise duty remains the same if you have it registered as private heavy goods vehicle too.

 

Norman

[Degsy]

Degsey, I was taking the info of my licence. Since recent legislation changes licences have got very complicated. Yes I drive a bus, which means I'm directly responsobile for any where up to a couple of hundered lives everyday. I'm also used to ignoring abuse from various scrotes. The whole thing about de reating is relevant round here, dropping in and out of the Low Emissions Zone every two hundered yards, depending on what you are driving it a nightmare, one moment legal then those ***** signs.

It is now down to the 7.5 ton mark, so if I can get the loory box below that it would be worth it. The total load never actually exceeds two ton, but a horse is a bulky object.

 

The only way I can make any sense out of this disjointed rambling is to assume that you are some how referring to the horse and cart which you admit to driving through regulations or you are about to surprise us all with

a Steptoe and Son renactment.

[TooTallMike]

Purely for information purposes I down-rated my F350 pickup from 4250kg GVW to 3490kg as it was proving difficult to get it tested locally at the time. All I had to do was get a weighbridge cert. for the UW and present it for inspection by VOSA. They instructed me to stamp an ali plate with the UW and GVW and 'fix it permanently' to the driver's door. No mechanical modifications were needed in this particular case. Once down-rated, the vehicle is restricted to that GVW and the driver can be prosecuted if found to be exceeding it. Towing capacity is also reduced proportionally.

 

- Mike

[ArtistsRifles]

when you passed a driving test has got nothing to do with downrating the gross weight of a vehicle which is quite legal and if you had read the information in the link you posted you would know this. To drive a vehicle or vehicle plus trailer with a MAM of 12.5 tonnes you would need an LGV entitlement on your licence and even then I don't think specific weights such as you mention are printed anywhere on the licence. Stick to bus driving.

 

The date does affect what you can tow though mate. Pass your test before a certain date and the B+E is automatic. Pass it after that date and, without taking a seperate towing test, there are some strict limitations on what you can hook on the back of a vehicle.

[Degsy]

Agreed Neil but I was answering the original question not the smokescreen put up to cover confusion.

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

a Steptoe and Son renactment.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:Wish you hadnt said that cant get the ruddy music out of my head now:-D

[Degsy]

:rofl::rofl::rofl:Wish you hadnt said that cant get the ruddy music out of my head now:-D

 

Did you really have to mention the theme tune:argh:now its on replay in my head interspersed with visions of a madly pedalling cyclist and a tank:-D

[N.O.S.]

Can you downrate a cart by cutting part way through the wooden spokes? :???

 

I seem to remember someone downrated a MK series by removing the helper springs from the rear springs - or did they cut the helper spring brackets off?? Thought I'd read it on the forum way back :confused: Still seems a bit drastic, must be an easier way.

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

Can you downrate a cart by cutting part way through the wooden spokes? :???

 

I seem to remember someone downrated a MK series by removing the helper springs from the rear springs - or did they cut the helper spring brackets off?? Thought I'd read it on the forum way back :confused: Still seems a bit drastic, must be an easier way.

Get the correct Licence,now theres a novel idea.:rofl: