Skin Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Hello, I have recently purchased a FV610 command post and need to find information and parts. Parts required are:- Exaust silencer Metal box's for the sides or some working diagrams. Metal work for round the edge of the roof or drawings. Rear light lenses. Radios and intercom, what was it fitted with. Ariels. Front top stowage cage. Picks and shovels. Manuals. Spare wheel and tyre. Belts,cooling generator etc. Please advise where I can find more info internet etc. All advise warmly recived Thanks Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 In 1978 - 79 we had Saracen ACVs as Recce Battlegroup and Combat Team command vehicles in 3 Armd Div in BAOR. The radio harness was Larkspur. Zero Alpha and Zero Bravo were the two Battlegroup command vehicles, running the 15th/19th The King's Royal Hussars (15/19H) Battlegroup Command Net and reporting to Division. They were essentially identical since one or other was always filling this role. Static (back-to-back with penthouses end-to-end), one would be running the net while the other was available for backup. During a move, Bravo would assume control (seemlessly to anyone outside since the pool of operators comprised both crews) and Alpha would move to a new location and set up. After a radio check to verify comms, Alpha would assume control and Bravo would relocate. (It was normal for Alpha to move first but this was purely SOP: if conditions demanded, Bravo could move first. I crewed Zero Bravo during this period. The exact radio fit is now long gone. I am sure one of the two had a C13 High-Power to monitor the Divisional Guard Net in the event that nuclear escalation and EMP wiped out VHF comms. The other had a C11/R210, which was functionally similar to the C13 HP (these were very old, obsolete sets and in practice never switched on). There was a C42 for the Battlegroup Command Net forward link to the Combat Teams (Medium Recce Squadrons). There was a Top Secret BID150 (Google it: it isn't secret any more. I know of at least one person with a BID150 in private hands). The BID150 was externally essentially a C42 painted Post Office Red (to indicate Secret kit). Its internal workings may still be secret so I shall not comment further. This was used to speak to Division and the other Battle Groups. This net allowed Commanding officers to talk to the Brigadier in clear without having to use all the security measures that applied on unscrambled nets. That's three sets. I am sure there were only three sets, but my gut is suggesting there was another C42. I must be wrong. IIRC In early 1979 we were issued Clansman and for that exercise period we had a VRC353/VRC321/BID150 radio fit. (Although the BID150 used Larkspur harness, it was entirely isolated from the rest of the harness so that there could be no crossfeed of in-clear speech from the BID to the unscrambled BG Command Net. As well as the set, the harness boxes were also painted Post Office Red.) I am really dragging my brains here and these are the best I can do. I could be wrong. Remember that BAOR was issued Clansman a division at a time, so that dates for other divisions probably vary. During the period where we had Saracens, I never served in an FHQ (Combat Team HQ) so I cannot be certain of the radio fit. My gut instinct is C42 forward to the troops / C42 back to BG HQ / C13 Guard. But don't quote me. Then, having ripped the Larkspur out of the Saracens and replaced it with Clansman, we finally got the Sultans that were built for Clansman (but HMG told the MOD they could afford CVR(T) OR Clansman, but not both; take your pick). So we ripped the Clansman harness back out of the Saracens and installed it into the Sultans. That was about 1980, by which time I was commanding a Rebroadcast Ferret in Battlegroup HQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 In RHQ there was also a third ACV, Zero Charlie, which the Orbat said was the Intelligence cell. Since we had no Intelligence (cue Team America jokes) cell with us on exercise, Zero Charlie simply followed RHQ around like a bad smell providing extra crewmen to stag on. I do not believe Charlie had a BID and I could not swear to it having a high-power HF set for the Guard Net. That would suggest a C42 / C42 radio fit. Maybe C42 / C42 / Standard C13. Not a lot of help. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 That's a lot of typing without answering any questions? Green Machine Surplus will be able to help with some of those, and Vintage MV Manuals have the manuals. Look them up on milweb. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Possibly even Banisters as well - also to be found up on MilWeb. They do a lot of stuff for the Fv6xx series vehicles! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Possibly even Banisters as well - also to be found up on MilWeb. They do a lot of stuff for the Fv6xx series vehicles! Excuse me! What about: Radios and intercom, what was it fitted with. ? You just can't get the staff. Tcha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Excuse me! What about: ? You just can't get the staff. Tcha. Think you quoted the wrong reply sir!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skin Posted June 13, 2008 Author Share Posted June 13, 2008 Thanks for the info, despratley need a silencer Bannisters seem to be the only company with one £375.00 + vat ouch! any ideas? Thanks Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Thanks for the info, despratley need a silencer Bannisters seem to be the only company with one £375.00 + vat ouch! any ideas? Thanks Paul Seems a fair price.. would snap it up before they're gone... that's what happened with the Ferret & Fox Exhausts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Thanks for the info, despratley need a silencer Bannisters seem to be the only company with one £375.00 + vat ouch! any ideas? I bought one from them about seven years ago, at that same price, so not much inflation there :-D. It is true to say, they are about the only source. All I can say, is good luck fitting it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyroo Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Thanks for the info, despratley need a silencer Bannisters seem to be the only company with one £375.00 + vat ouch! any ideas? Thanks Paul Thats cheep, you could always do what I did and have one made in stainless at 850 pounds plus VAT. At least it will last...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 These are known installations for the vehicle types extracted from the EMERs showing the date of the earliest EMER. Wireless Stations in APC, Saracen (C13/B47 with harness type B) 1961 Station, Radio, in ACV Saracen Mk 2 (C13/C13HP/C42) 1967 Wireless Station in APC, Saracen, Mks 1 & 2 (C42/B47) 1958 Wireless Stations in ACV, Saracen (C11-R210/C42) 1958 Wireless Stations in ACV, Saracen (C11-R210/C42/C42 with harness type A) 1959 Wireless Stations in ACP, RA, Adjutant, Saracen, Mk 2 (C11-R210/C45 plus R209) 1958 Wireless Stations in ACP, RA, Saracen, Mk 2. (C45/B48 plus R209) 1958 Wireless Stations in ACP, RA, CPO, & ACPO, Saracen, Mk 2. (C45/C45 plus R209) 1958 Wireless Stations in ACP, RA, Saracen, Mk 2 (C45/B48) 1958 Wireless Stations in ACP, RA, GPO, Saracen, Mk 2. (C45/B48) 1958 Wireless Stations in ACP, RA, GPO, Saracen, Mk 2. (C45/B48 with harness type B) 1958 Wireless Stations in ACP, RA, Saracen, Mk 2. (C45/C45/B48/R209 + 2 x ALS21) 1962 Wireless Stations in ACP, RA, Saracen, Mk 2 (C11-R210/C45 plus R209) 1958 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 Forget the ACP RA. we got three issued to us by mistake in late 1977 instead of ACVs. The ACP RA is a huge, heavy, slow, lumbering mutant of a Saracen. We took them back to Paderborn, shoe-horned in all our radio sets, took them out on a warm-up exercise and spent two weeks in the German winter, never exceeding 15 mph. If you then rule out the APC configurations, you are essentially left with what I described, apart form the fact that a decade later, there was also a BID installation. ISTR that the BID installation, consisting basically of the set and a one-set harness and being physically separated from the main harness, was a one-size fits all (the CO also had a BID150 in the back of his FFR Land Rover so that he could remain in contact with Brigade / Task Force / Division as applicable whilst separated from his HQ) installation in addition to the standard installations shown above for the battlegroup HQ of the mid-70s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 Forget the ACP RA. we got three issued to us by mistake in late 1977 instead of ACVs.The ACP RA is a huge, heavy, slow, lumbering mutant of a Saracen. But isn't that what Paul has got a FV610? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 No a Saracen ACP RA is still a Saracen, and still obviously a Saracen, but a foot or two higher than other Saracens. It was issued to the Royal Artillery ONLY as an Armoured Command Post (for the Royal Artillery - hence ACP RA). Saracen was originally built as an APC (Armoured Personnel Carrier) and over its lifetime the APC probably comprised the bulk of the Saracen fleet. Toward the end of its lifetime I am prepared to bet that apart from the Cyprus Armoured Car Squadron and the Royal Armoured Corps Regiment in Omagh, Co Tyrone, the Armoured Personnel Carrier had been retired, leaving in service only the ACV (Armoured Command Vehicle) in service with the Armoured Recce Regiments to cover until Sultan came along to provide a CVR(T) option in CVR(T) regiments, because Armoured and Mechanised Infantry regiments were predominantly diesel-fuelled (Chieftain and FV432 respectively) and used diesel-fuelled FV432 ACVs to aid logistical support. Apart from presence / absence of turret for a Browning Three-Oh, different external storage and antennae configurations, there is not a lot of difference at a glance between an APC and an ACV. Interestingly, ISTR that our Zero Charlie was or had once been tropicalised in that the airflow through the engine was reversed, thereby sucking in air through the external trunking above the mudguards and blowing it out through the front grill (which ISTR came with a rubber flap to push the air out sideways instead of down into the sand and blowing it back up into the driver's face). As I understand it, ALL Saracens were FV610 (but to those of us who crewed them they were just Saracen - or Sarry Can or Sarry Bus - we never ever referred to our vehicles by the FV number apart from those FV400-series that were never deemed worthy of a real name). Nobody ever called a Scorpion FV101 or Scimitar FV107. The OP said he had a Saracen ACV, so that all the references to ACP RA and APC are irrelevant. I just Googled for "Saracen ACP RA" (no quotes) and found a document which lists among lots of other things, a couple of entirely different radio fits for it including: Station Radio C11-R210/C45/R209 in Saracen, Mk 2,ACP, RA, Adjutant Station Radio C11-R210/C45/R209 in Saracen, Mk 2,ACP, RA, CPO and ACPO The link was: http://www.megacycles.co.uk/byequip.pdf The OP may find some documentation relevant to the ACV: I am going to get on with some work. ;o) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 I do feel a prat, going back to the OP and seeing that he wrote "Saracen Command Post", which I took to be a mis-type of "Saracen Armoured Command Vehicle" and clearly you took to be a contraction of "Saracen Armoured Command Post Royal Artillery". My apologies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Keep digging..! http://www.silver-bullet-vehicles.co.uk/fv610.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Keep digging..! http://www.silver-bullet-vehicles.co.uk/fv610.htm I am sorry. You expect me to believe a single word from a document that spells canvas with 2 "s"s? I think not. (Slinks off quietly, quitting while he's behind.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Without going into all the letter suffixed variants & their sub variants. FV601 Saladin FV602 Saladin (West Germany) FV603 APC, Saracen FV604 ACV, Saracen FV605 Ambulance, Saracen FV610 Armoured command post, ACoP, RA, Saracen FV610A Armoured carrier, command, GPO/CPO, Saracen FV610A Armoured carrier, command, GPO/CPO, with Radar No.9 Mk 1 Robert, Saracen, Mk2 Paul’s original post refered to FV610. My list of wireless installations was merely those that I knew of & were just a summary of the EMERs I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Without going into all the letter suffixed variants & their sub variants. FV601 Saladin FV602 Saladin (West Germany) FV603 APC, Saracen FV604 ACV, Saracen FV605 Ambulance, Saracen FV610 Armoured command post, ACoP, RA, Saracen FV610A Armoured carrier, command, GPO/CPO, Saracen FV610A Armoured carrier, command, GPO/CPO, with Radar No.9 Mk 1 Robert, Saracen, Mk2 Paul’s original post refered to FV610. My list of wireless installations was merely those that I knew of & were just a summary of the EMERs I have. Naughty Clive - when talking of the FV600 series vehicles you forgot the following: Army FV620 - Stalwart Mk 1 FV622 - Stalwart Mk 2 GS FV623 - Stalwart Mk 2 Artillery Limber with HIAB FV624 -Stalwart Mk2 REME with HIAB RAF Mk 6 Crash Tender - Salamander (no FV number that I know of ??) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Naughty Clive - when talking of the FV600 series vehicles you forgot the following:.... Don't understand Neil. I'm not talking about the FV600 series, only the Saracen variants. The thread is entitled "Wanted Saracen info" :confused: BTW Salamander had various guises FV651, FV652 & FV6001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REME 245 Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 I assume this vehicle is already registered for the road or you could end up in the same position as our other friend on this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Don't understand Neil. I'm not talking about the FV600 series, only the Saracen variants. The thread is entitled "Wanted Saracen info" :confused: BTW Salamander had various guises FV651, FV652 & FV6001 Your list started out with the FV601 and FV602 - Saladin so I thought you were going through the whole of the FV600 family!! Thanks for the Salamander FV numbers too - I've made a note of them for future reference. I'd only seen them referred to as Mk 6 crash tenders till now!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam4949 Posted November 14, 2010 Share Posted November 14, 2010 Hi I am interested to know how you are getting on with your FV610 restoration. I have two, one largely restored and the other with a long way to go. Do you still need parts? Regards Malcolm Hello,I have recently purchased a FV610 command post and need to find information and parts. Parts required are:- Exaust silencer Metal box's for the sides or some working diagrams. Metal work for round the edge of the roof or drawings. Rear light lenses. Radios and intercom, what was it fitted with. Ariels. Front top stowage cage. Picks and shovels. Manuals. Spare wheel and tyre. Belts,cooling generator etc. Please advise where I can find more info internet etc. All advise warmly recived Thanks Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oily Posted November 16, 2010 Share Posted November 16, 2010 Thanks for the info, despratley need a silencer Bannisters seem to be the only company with one £375.00 + vat ouch! any ideas? Thanks Paul .... I can repair your silencer....., -pretty much no matter how bad, and it wouldn't cost anywhere near £375!:cool2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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