Ford GPW data plate typo???

[67burwood]

Evening everyone 

Now before you say “ not another Jeep data plate question “ bear with me….there could be a perfectly simple answer so I thought I’d ask the enthusiasts on this forum 😬 I recently purchased a 1943 gpw, chassis number 137### making it I believe an Aug 43 but that doesn’t tie up with the data plata which appears to be original 🤔

First picture from a distance, everything looks correct 

 

 

But now take a closer look!!

 

 

Spot the question??

 

Also why is the MB engine number so high ? I thought MB chassis numbers only ran into the 45#### range

 

[DFC1943Fl.Lt.]

Bloody hell Seamus not another jeep. 🤣

[67burwood]

12 hours ago, DFC1943Fl.Lt. said:

Bloody hell Seamus not another jeep. 🤣

I can’t help it!! I am attracted to rusty green metal 😬 I am seeking help 🤥

Edited November 13, 2021 by 67burwood

[Rootes75]

You need a big shed....

[67burwood]

37 minutes ago, Rootes75 said:

You need a big shed....

If I could find one near me without having to win the lottery I definitely would. 
No forthcoming info on the data plate yet.

[Richard Farrant]

23 hours ago, 67burwood said:

Evening everyone 

Now before you say “ not another Jeep data plate question “ bear with me….there could be a perfectly simple answer so I thought I’d ask the enthusiasts on this forum 😬 I recently purchased a 1943 gpw, chassis number 137### making it I believe an Aug 43 but that doesn’t tie up with the data plata which appears to be original 🤔

First picture from a distance, everything looks correct

But now take a closer look!!

Spot the question??

Also why is the MB engine number so high ? I thought MB chassis numbers only ran into the 45#### range

 

 

 

Here is a possible theory, the engine number may well fall after the last MB was produced because spare engines would have been supplied in large numbers and engine numbers would exceed vehicle numbers. This still happened in post war years for military vehicles to ensure no down time waiting for engines to be repaired. The previous paint colour is desert sand, so a possiblity this jeep was built up from parts at an overseas base workshop, such as the REME one in Egypt . The date stamping does not  look like original stamping so could be a rebuild date over stamped.

[67burwood]

3 hours ago, Richard Farrant said:

The previous paint colour is desert sand, so a possiblity this jeep was built up from parts at an overseas base workshop, such as the REME one in Egypt . The date stamping does not  look like original stamping so could be a rebuild date over stamped

The Jeep was a US import so not sure about a desert connection but it would be nice if there was one, I completely agree about the stamping, it just doesn’t look right but the plates look original and have good age to them but why stamp 1952?

[wally dugan]

May be it is to do with what was going on in 1952 KOREAN  WAR I950 to 1953  just may be ?

[67burwood]

43 minutes ago, wally dugan said:

May be it is to do with what was going on in 1952 KOREAN  WAR I950 to 1953  just may be ?

Good theory Wally ,maybe it was a NOS Jeep in a crate that someone got for Christmas in 1952 😁

On a more serious note this can’t be the only Jeep with this date stamp…..

Come on Jeep owners thinking caps on please  🤔

[wally dugan]

On the lines of theory the plate states date of delivery not manufacture like a lot of armies post war some vehicles were held in war reserve so it could have been released in to service in 1952 as there was  a supply shortage because of the war JAPAN  sent vehicles to KOREA at the request of the American government

 

 

[67burwood]

1 hour ago, wally dugan said:

On the lines of theory the plate states date of delivery not manufacture like a lot of armies post war some vehicles were held in war reserve so it could have been released in to service in 1952 as there was  a supply shortage because of the war JAPAN  sent vehicles to KOREA at the request of the American government

 

 

War reserve sounds very plausible but why isn’t there the plant manufacturer code or chassis number?

[Chris Hall]

I would question if the plate is original, and if original, are the markings? That font isn’t one I’ve ever seen in the US, they are usually very simple unlike this style.

 

It wouldn’t be a war reserve either as that would imply that it had still been accepted. 
 

There’s also no other details, so it could be a replacement NOS plate, but I doubt the vehicle left the factory with it installed.

[67burwood]

1 hour ago, Chris Hall said:

There’s also no other details, so it could be a replacement NOS plate, but I doubt the vehicle left the factory with it installed.

The lack of details is unusual, the font doesn’t look right and why stamp 1952?? It’s possible it’s a nos plate but it’s been there a long time with the correct fixings……the mystery continues 🤔

[Richard Farrant]

On 11/12/2021 at 8:07 PM, 67burwood said:

 

 

I note there is a rebuild plate on the engine to left of engine number, this might give up a bit more information if we could see it.

Richard

[Alpina]

Willys MB engines were used in other equipment such as generators so jeep engine numbers were higher than the frame number. That engine probably would have been in a late war MB with a frame number about 100,000 lower.

Can’t help with the data plate. It’s odd because the rivets look original.

[Chris Hall]

Did PE95 generator engine not have their own serial number? Why would they put an MB prefix on the block? 

[67burwood]

9 hours ago, Richard Farrant said:

I note there is a rebuild plate on the engine to left of engine number, this might give up a bit more information if we could see it.

Richard

I’ve taken some pictures of items that don’t look the norm to see if they shed any light on the 1952 stamp.

Engine rebuild plate as requested by Richard 

Dashboard all looks fairly original 

 

I’ve never seen these painted on instrument info, they do look original and appear to be on a first coat of paint 🤔

Black out light switch labels 🤔

 

they look like a later fitting 

 

 

Stamped on the top edge of the rear tub, not that unusual but maybe an identifier !!

 

The remains of possible unit markings on the rear arches?? 
 

 

Looking forward to reading your input. 
 

Seamus 

[phil.c]

Have a look at this link https://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?t=171612 Talks about higher numbers, might help. Is there any over paint on data plates? if not it may suggest they have been of before repaint.

[Richard Farrant]

2 hours ago, 67burwood said:

I’ve taken some pictures of items that don’t look the norm to see if they shed any light on the 1952 stamp.

Engine rebuild plate as requested by Richard 

Dashboard all looks fairly original 

 

I’ve never seen these painted on instrument info, they do look original and appear to be on a first coat of paint 🤔

Black out light switch labels 🤔

 

they look like a later fitting 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Seamus,

The engine may well have been changed at some time, I was wondering if the engine had a military rebuild, but possibly not as no job number or reference on the plate. The company appear to be motor parts company, I found a photo of there premises in 1950's on Google. The word "occulte" appears to be possibly French and could mean secret or hidden, so it may indicate that the blackout light is on. Why a French word? Maybe this is a lead?

[Chris Hall]

3 minutes ago, Richard Farrant said:

Hi Seamus,

The engine may well have been changed at some time, I was wondering if the engine had a military rebuild, but possibly not as no job number or reference on the plate. The company appear to be motor parts company, I found a photo of there premises in 1950's on Google. The word "occulte" appears to be possibly French and could mean secret or hidden, so it may indicate that the blackout light is on. Why a French word? Maybe this is a lead?

It could have been occulted in English as the top plate is Normal which is certainly English. The British military still use the word occulted for ‘off’.

[ruxy]

Some German tanks used infra-red lighting during the Battle-of-the Bulge,  it stands to reason that some Allied vehicles were also equipped.  I am thinking it was for  'occulte' meaning all normal lights off - other than infra-red  ,  during WW2 - this technology would be doubling up as occultation doubling up as well as real occult in it's time , as well as touching the "need to know basis".

[67burwood]

2 hours ago, phil.c said:

Have a look at this link https://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?t=171612 Talks about higher numbers, might help. Is there any over paint on data plates? if not it may suggest they have been of before repaint.

Thanks for the link Phil, that confirms the high engine number as suggested by a few other members, I’ll check for overpaint on the data plate edges. 
 

1 hour ago, Richard Farrant said:

The word "occulte" appears to be possibly French and could mean secret or hidden, so it may indicate that the blackout light is on. Why a French word? Maybe this is a lead?

Hi Richard, I had thought the same but normal is spelt in English so still unsure.  Unfortunately the rebuild plate wasn’t any help and it was most likely a post war replacement. 
 

1 hour ago, Chris Hall said:

It could have been occulted in English as the top plate is Normal which is certainly English. The British military still use the word occulted for ‘off’.

Hi Chris, it’s certainly unusual but this Jeep was a US import, I can’t imagine many Jeeps were transported back to the US post war but I am happy to be proven wrong. 
 

40 minutes ago, ruxy said:

Some German tanks used infra-red lighting during the Battle-of-the Bulge,  it stands to reason that some Allied vehicles were also equipped.  I am thinking it was for  'occulte' meaning all normal lights off - other than infra-red  ,  during WW2 - this technology would be doubling up as occultation doubling up as well as real occult in it's time , as well as touching the "need to know basis".

I like your thinking, I’ve never seen this set up on a Jeep before but it would be nice to have a bit more evidence to back this up, hopefully someone else has actually seen this before. 
 

the instrument labels are unusual, I thought they might be recognised by someone. Any more info is always welcome. 
 

Seamus. 

[67burwood]

This looks interesting and may solve the mystery!!
 

https://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?t=285634