ploughman Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I know it comes as second nature to most on here but I just want to check that we not missing something. We have a Diesel engined (Ford) Coles crane that we are trying to get back into operation after about 4 years laid up inside a shed. The engine refuses to start after numerous attempts and checking through the fuel and air systems. Does anyone have an idiot proof checklist they could post up? The crane was driven into the shed and shut down and no engine work over the last 4 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 N.O.S. Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) No list - but two things from experience: 1) Check there isn't a birds nest in the exhaust - this can prevent any air flow into the engine, not even enough to fire half-heartedly. We had this with a Gardner 6LW. 2) (most likely) Fuel pump rack stuck in shut-down position. Often caused by just one pump element in the pump sticking, thereby preventing the rack from opening all elements. Sometimes the element can be freed off by gentle tapping of the rack, but proceed very carefully to avoid damage - and make sure the rack does not then become stuck partially or fully open as the engine then might run away! Edited July 9, 2015 by N.O.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Richard Farrant Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I take it there is no smoke or attempt at firing? Fuel in pump could have waxed in one of the winters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Diana and Jackie Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 If you have eliminated everything else try bleeding at the injectors. Diana I know it comes as second nature to most on here but I just want to check that we not missing something. We have a Diesel engined (Ford) Coles crane that we are trying to get back into operation after about 4 years laid up inside a shed. The engine refuses to start after numerous attempts and checking through the fuel and air systems. Does anyone have an idiot proof checklist they could post up? The crane was driven into the shed and shut down and no engine work over the last 4 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 attleej Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 In the circumstances that you describe, if you are not getting smoke out of the exhaust it must be a fuel problem. Although I have found an exception. The REME Museum's M578 would not start despite plenty of smoke. However, the smoke was coming from the cold start flame thrower device and not the injectors which were seized. Advice already given is, as ever, is good. Check that the stop control lever on the pump is in correct position. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Bandit Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 If all else fails try a squirt of ether (easy start) to see if it at least fires, if it dont fire or cough on that then ide be looking at stuck valves or stuck rings in which case some engine oil down the bores may help, at least if it does fire it will eliminate an engine issue and you can look closer at a probable fuelling problem, im not a huge lover of ether but for the last straw it has helped diagnose several diesel engine problems over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 ploughman Posted July 11, 2015 Author Share Posted July 11, 2015 Thanks for all the replies. Rod who is trying to get the thing started after I gave him the challenge, is fairly experienced in the Tractor / Farm equipment world and I am sure he has done all the obvious things. I am just trying to assist with some thought provoking suggestions that may be obvious when you remember them. Fuel has been drained, Tank cleaned out, Fuel lines blown through, Air filters renewed. When he returns from holiday the Fuel pump and Injectors will be off and sent for service / overhaul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Tony B Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 I'm suprised then he hasn't tried the oldest farmers trick then. It's amazing how effective holding a burning rag over the air intake can be on a cold frosty morning. Another old trick, take a couple of jerrycans of Disiel fuel and bury them in the muck heap overnight, by morning they are nice and warm, just right to pour into the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Degsy Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Tony this is 2015 not 1960 and we're hardly in the middle of winter. Assuming that your man knows his stuff he will have checked for fuel at the lift pump followed by the filter(s), the injection pump and then the injectors. If there is fuel at the injection pump and not at the injectors then obviously the pump is at fault and as NOS suggests the likeliest thing is the rack, even if you free this off having the pump and injectors serviced can only be a good thing. Look forward to hearing in a couple of weeks that your problems are over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 ploughman Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 The engine is mounted about 6ft in the air behind the LH Ladder At the rear of the crane upperworks This is the offending lump. As to prewarming the engine to get it started by lighting a fire. No need for that at all. If you check out the inside wall of the shed it is lined with spray foam that cost us £25K In winter fairly warm and toasty even with the main doors open. In summer its a sauna especially when working on top of the crane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 cosrec Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Looking at the above photo the stop control is not connected have you been stopping it by hand. the stop control is pointing in right direction to start. The speed control cable looks all wrong to get any revs on if it did start. Eg all travel gone on cable with arm in tick over position. On the side of the pump is plate with two bolts on. If you take this of you will see all the gubbins in side I bet it will be gummed up with rust caused by condensation from being stood a quick a quick spray with freeing oil or diesel and a poke or two with a screw driver and it will free off. this is not the rack but the mechanism that allows the the stop to override the throttle. You can still start it with plate off to see if you have cured the problem. It was a very common problem with those minmec pumps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Richard Farrant Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Bryan, In your last photo is that an electrical cut off switch on the pump behind the lever? The spade connection does not have a wire to it. If that is what it is, it will need a feed to it to make the engine run. I have never come across a 4D (or whatever they called it later on), with one of these cut offs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 cosrec Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) One other suggestion if that's electric solenoid on pump maybe it should have a wire to it on truck engines there was a button there with a convoluted rubber cover on it that you pressed in for excess fuel for cold starting it used to flick out when the engine revved. Ops Richard and I must have been typing at same time Edited July 12, 2015 by cosrec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 cosrec Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Type in Minimec injector pump on your search engine you will get a wealth of info and videos illustrating the 3 things I have pointed out and save a fortune for what is a very simple fault and once very common problem. It was only condensation and lack of use that caused it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Bandit Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 On our ford marine engines years ago (basically the same) the excess fuel was a mechanical push button on the side of the throttle lever or stop lever (cant recall which) and a push to stop button on the control panel to actuate the shut down solenoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 ploughman Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 Thanks again for replies. Photos taken prior to starting attempts as evidenced by lack of Radiator and disconnected hoses. New stop cable has been installed but will forward comments to Rod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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ploughman
I know it comes as second nature to most on here but I just want to check that we not missing something.
We have a Diesel engined (Ford) Coles crane that we are trying to get back into operation after about 4 years laid up inside a shed.
The engine refuses to start after numerous attempts and checking through the fuel and air systems.
Does anyone have an idiot proof checklist they could post up?
The crane was driven into the shed and shut down and no engine work over the last 4 years.
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