Great War truck Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 Steve reported just a few days ago that we were unlucky to accidently push the Autocar into the Dennis and damaged one of the Lucas 722 Side Lamps on the Autocar. The brass rim had actually split and it rather looks as if a new rim would have to be spun up – a time consuming exercise in making the “chuck” for that although the actual spinning exercise would probably not take quite so long! Well yesterday, Tony went to an Auction and picked up a pair of 722 lamps – complete and handed – although rather dirty for just £50 – and this included a third lamp in the same Lot which is a Ford. Nobody else bid and that seems why we were so lucky in getting them so cheaply when they sell for considerably more if and when you can find them at an Autojumble. So for a short term solution and to save time for the other projects going on, we can take the front rim off one of the newly acquired pair and swap it for the damaged one! We assumed that the Ford Lamp was from a Model T but looking at those now, it seems that they are round in shape whilst the one that we have is square in shape. Has anybody any idea what it could have been used on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nz2 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 We assumed that the Ford Lamp was from a Model T but looking at those now, it seems that they are round in shape whilst the one that we have is square in shape. Has anybody any idea what it could have been used on? It would appear you have started on yet another restoration project. Now to find the rest of the bits for the Ford! The line up of work would put this about five years out before a start. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minesweeper Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 It would appear you have started on yet another restoration project. Now to find the rest of the bits for the Ford! The line up of work would put this about five years out before a start. Doug No, no, Doug! We are not going to start anything else! The Ford Lamp can be moved on but we are just curious to know what sort of Ford it was used on! Could it have been a Ford Truck of some kind? Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Peskett Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Almost certainly made by Raydot as a Raydot-Ford side lamp fitted to the 1 ton TT truck range 1923- 1927. ( information 'The English Model 'T' Ford). Richard Pesket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 Thanks Richard and Alan (who responded by E-mail). That is very helpful. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOM MODEL T Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Steve reported just a few days ago that we were unlucky to accidently push the Autocar into the Dennis and damaged one of the Lucas 722 Side Lamps on the Autocar. The brass rim had actually split and it rather looks as if a new rim would have to be spun up – a time consuming exercise in making the “chuck” for that although the actual spinning exercise would probably not take quite so long! Well yesterday, Tony went to an Auction and picked up a pair of 722 lamps – complete and handed – although rather dirty for just £50 – and this included a third lamp in the same Lot which is a Ford. Nobody else bid and that seems why we were so lucky in getting them so cheaply when they sell for considerably more if and when you can find them at an Autojumble. So for a short term solution and to save time for the other projects going on, we can take the front rim off one of the newly acquired pair and swap it for the damaged one! We assumed that the Ford Lamp was from a Model T but looking at those now, it seems that they are round in shape whilst the one that we have is square in shape. Has anybody any idea what it could have been used on? I started following your threads over the weekend, after reading everything!. Great work and dedication. I have included a photo of 2 lamps that came with my 1914 Ford Model T. They are marked Dreadnaught and are very similar to those in your post. Any idea where they came off? Regards Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nz2 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Tom, Your lamps being brass are most probably from a car. Heavier commercial vehicles tended to use painted steel lamps. In saying this some truck operators especially in city environments decorated their trucks to reflect their up market customer base. As lamps were available as an after market option which lamps appeared on a particular model of car is a difficult point. Some manufacturers would have purchased in bulk and supplied lamps, but it was an owners option to have lamps when purchased new. Least that is the situation as occurred in NZ. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 I have not come across the name Dreadnaught on lamps before. Great name though. I am sure there were many different small companies making lamps and this is one of them. Nice looking lamps though. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertBlooms88 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 (edited) I have a couple photo's here showing Dennis vehicles. They have been seen before but there is a Flickr link attached here to each photo where you will find the file link for the ' original ' LARGE MB files on Library of Congress website. British military vehicles in France during World War One Lonsdale and Adshead Brewery vehicle in France during WWI DesertBlooms88 Edited November 18, 2012 by DesertBlooms88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I think that lower picture is a Thornycroft, a little smaller than ours. Maybe an X or a BT if they were making them before the War. Thanks for showing it. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertBlooms88 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I think that lower picture is a Thornycroft, a little smaller than ours. Maybe an X or a BT if they were making them before the War. Thanks for showing it. Steve Oh ok. , I saw the wheels were similar and thought it a Dennis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nz2 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I likewise consider it to be a Thornycroft with the spoke pattern and the bearing caps of that design. Downloading the original image of the Library of Congress has improved clarity and brought out more detail of the back axle and diff housing. It does appear to have the axle tubes bolted on the sides of the diff housing, these nuts being visible in silhouette. Also the oil level flanged section to the right hand side can be made out. These points correspond to an axle and diff assembly I have here. However the front axle on this appears to be straight, with no curve what so ever, where as mine has a short curved section under the engine. With the features as given the truck in the photograph would appear to be an early J model, or prototype of the series dating it around 1912 to 1913. Can anyone give a date from the plate number? Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertBlooms88 Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 (edited) Dennis vehicle in use with the British Army during World War One. The original Library of Congress LARGE MB ( to see those finer details ) file can be found via the Flickr link with each photo. First image is in Palestine, transporting German POW's. Close up Close up Second image is also in Palestine, near the Jaffa Gate in Jerusalem. DesertBlooms88 Edited November 18, 2012 by DesertBlooms88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Wonderful pictures! I think that these are all Peerless trucks. You can just make out the Peerless plate on the back of the rear crossmember in the second pic. We are planning to put one of ours into Mesopotamian service but we have seen very few pictures of them. These are terrific as they are rear views which are very rare indeed. That second photo is very interesting because of the livery. It looks to me as if it was painted a darker colour (khaki green?) but is so smothered in dust that it looks a lot lighter. I thought at first, that it had some sort of disruptive camouflage on it too but on second thoughts, it is just shadow from a low sun almost square on to the front. We may not have nailed the colour scheme yet but we are getting closer! Thanks for posting! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertBlooms88 Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 I am glad they are of interest. Even if i miss identified them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Larkin Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I've not looked at the Middle East in any detail but all the companies I've seen there all had Peerless 3-tonners or Fords. Some Peerless 3-tonners were downgraded to 30-cwt by simply changing the signage to read 'Load not to exceed 30 cwt'. The reason they were downgraded was because 3-tonners got bogged down in the sand too easily when fully freighted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Regular readers may recall that on page 161, Tim recounted my efforts to repair the oil level float. Well, we had a play with the lorry over the weekend only to find that it has sunk again! I shall have to spin up a replacement. On page 162, I postulated the question as to who invented the dipstick? I still don't know but have just read in the 'Octagon Car Club Bulletin' that just prior to WW1, William Morris had been over to the US to see how they built cars and to find an engine for the new four seater Morris Cowley. He bought the type 'U' Continental Red Seal engine and this is what 'The Autocar' said about it in early 1916: 'The standard oil gauge (oil level in the sump) on light cars takes the form of an overflow tap, which is necessarily so low down on the crank case that it is difficult to see and awkward to clean out. A downward slanting tube is sunk into the side of the Morris Cowley crankcase, in which a knob-ended rod is a close fit, the lower tip of this rod is scribed with cross lines and when the rod is pulled out the green oil stain shows where the oil level is' Well, the dip-stick seems to have been invented by the Americans. Unless you know better! With thanks to Neil Cairns for bringing this to my attention. Steve :cheesy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redherring Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Oh. Green oil. They were well ahead of their time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8_10 Brass Cleaner Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Gents, a friend of mine has these They look to me like Dennis front wheels. Do you know of anyone who would give them a home? They are located in Stonehouse (Glos), with a steamy owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redherring Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Oddly enough I have what appear to be an identical pair! I had loosely tagged them as being Vulcan? Could it be that these wheels were used on more than one make? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 That wouldn't be unlikely as the bearing and tyre sizes were defined by the Subsidy scheme. They were also manufactured by outside contractors. Our fronts are stamped 'S & C' and 'RS & J' which we take to be 'Shrewsbury and Challoner' and 'Ransomes Sims and Jefferies'. I understand that Thornycroft wheels were made by Taskers of Andover but I have never seen one on a lorry of another make. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redherring Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Steve, Any thoughts on W.N. and a five pointed star? A register of acronyms would be useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon_M Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 If I see marking like that, especially if it is on an exposed corner of the completed vehicle, I always assume it to be stamping to show that it has passed an inspection of some sort. It could be W.N. and a star, or the W. N. and star might have been applied at varying times during the build. The star is the non-standard stamp ( the difficult / impossible one to get / forge ) so that will be the offical sign-off for whatever process it was. Here's the same thing on a Dodge T212 D8A at a Canadian plant, though probably staged specially for the camera; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nz2 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Is that a broad arrow stamped in the top right corner of that cross member? I take this is on the Leyland. As for the star and initials I agree it could be an inspection mark. Unusual place to place it upon the rear. In common with this, some steam engine manufacturers ( Traction engines) allowed staff assembling engines to stamp there mark on the horn plates supporting the crank shaft and gearing. Quality assurance and traceability is not new. I have a Thornycroft here ( late J of circa 1924) with a series of stamps on a cross member near the gearbox. I consider it could have been related to a gearbox repair. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon_M Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Unusual place to place it upon the rear. Doug Not really. It needs a location that can quickly and easily be checked by eye without opening doors, hatches, getting down on the ground or whatever. Case in point is where he is stamping that D8A, passengers side extreme rear corner. This mark is essentially meaningless as soon as the truck leaves the production facility, as it is only an authorisation / acceptance mark. It is common to have one designated area for these stamps, and to place several there to ascertain that various tasks had been done, for example W. could be a complete chassis mechanical inspection, N. could be body and so on, and the star the customers acceptance. I have the odd company hard stamp myself somewhere but they are going out of fashion now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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