little ray Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 (edited) Hi again, well I have been checking the beast out and I think it needs some paint and LTC, so can any of you tell me the paint schemes for the vehicle and were one can get the paint from please also is there a company that can supply the vinyl trim cover so I can replace the damaged parts on my 439.. dose any one know of one being parted out? As you can see from the photo it is a mass of colours so I would like the sand and black if that is correct. Edited September 30, 2014 by little ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little ray Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 Photo would not load so here is another try Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Herbert Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 The beige vinyl fabric comes in two sorts. If the hull is painted silver inside it is stuff called Trakmark which was made by Dunlop and came on a roll, to be glued onto the foam padding. It has a pronounced diamond pattern embossed into it, with about 6mm diamonds. It seems to have been discontinued in the early 90s but a couple of people here have found rolls of it to refurbish their 430s with. The later stuff used on vehicles with white painted interiors, is almost but not quite smooth, and a rather browner colour. No one seems to have a name or manufacturer for it (annoying because I need some) and I have never seen any for sale but have been told that it is used in the engine rooms of power boats and yachts though I have had no joy looking in marine supliers websites. There is also a revolting pale green covered padding that was apparently supplied with the vinyl already stuck to the foam and the shapes just cut out so the edges are exposed. As for exterior colour, you have a choice of plain NATO green, NATO green & black, sand, sand & black, sand and green or UN white. There was no defined pattern for the camoflage, just 1/3 dark colour, 2/3 lighter colour in irregular splodges. The edges can be sharp if brushed or soft if sprayed. There were other schemes but these were the most common. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 There are rolls of Trakmark on ebay but sit down first, they are not cheap. C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little ray Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 Thank you and I will sit down when I go to ebay but I will check some of the trimmers in this country to see if there is any thing close, I will go with the sand and black but is it just standard paint with out luster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little ray Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 One other thing I noticed is that were the paint has lifted to the bottom coat it is blue, any ideas why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Thank you and I will sit down when I go to ebay but I will check some of the trimmers in this country to see if there is any thing close, I will go with the sand and black but is it just standard paint with out luster. Do you think it is currently sand and back? Because the photo shows a faded nato green and black vehicle. The mod infra red reflecting paint fades quite quickly to a colour which can look grey or sand. The paint colours are listed in BS381C as NATO Green shade 285 and light stone shade 361. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little ray Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 I will check tomorrow as its mid night now but it looks sand so I will get some close up photos in full light, were do we get the radar reflecting paint please as I can use it on my 4Wd on the free way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I will check tomorrow as its mid night now but it looks sand so I will get some close up photos in full light, were do we get the radar reflecting paint please as I can use it on my 4Wd on the free way. I think you mean Infra-Red Reflecting paint. The idea is to provide the same degree of IR reflectance as the surrounding foliage. "Radar reflecting paint" would make you even more detecable on a radar speed trap. Radar absorbing paint as such does not exist, if it did there would have been no need to invent the stealth bomber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little ray Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 It was invented and it bent the beam, it was invented by the Japanese because there were so many bridges on the river through Tokyo and the barges were causing problems in the 1970's, a 4 gal drum would be nearly unliftable due to the weight. It then just was not on any paint list after that as Nato took it and no more was said, I saw a drum of it on the Army base and I could just lift it but not steal it as I wished I could. It was grey in colour with a metal filling through it. A plane would not lift off if painted with it and a car could not carry it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little ray Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 Hi Clive, what do all these letters mean please as I have no idea what you are after.. eg AC, ACI, AESP, AO, COSA, CR, DCI, EMEC, EMEI, EMER, EMPL, EMPS, ER, JSP, LoC, LTI, MAOS, MRA, RAOS, REA, VAOS, WMTI, etc, Army & WO Coded publications in paper or fiche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little ray Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 This is one version, its an American paint acording to the net but I was led to beleive the Japs invented it. Radar-absorbent material, or RAM, is a class of materials used in stealth technology to disguise a vehicle or structure from radar detection. A material's absorbency at a given frequency of radar wave depends upon its composition. RAM cannot perfectly absorb radar at any frequency, but any given composition does have greater absorbency at some frequencies than others; there is no one RAM that is suited to absorption of all radar frequencies. A common misunderstanding is that RAM makes an object invisible to radar. A radar-absorbent material can significantly reduce an object's radar cross-section in specific radar frequencies, but it does not result in "invisibility" on any frequency. Bad weather may contribute to deficiencies in stealth capability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Hi Clive, what do all these letters mean please as I have no idea what you are after..eg AC, ACI, AESP, AO, COSA, CR, DCI, EMEC, EMEI, EMER, EMPL, EMPS, ER, JSP, LoC, LTI, MAOS, MRA, RAOS, REA, VAOS, WMTI, etc, Army & WO Coded publications in paper or fiche. Wrote a comprehensive reply, slow going though on a pad. But post lost as wifi lost. Replied again and it did same. Hope to answer properly by next week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little ray Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 Hi, I had a good look at the paint today and its a over spray of Black on sand on grey with blue under neath, I also found the army registration number under the black, (16 AE 75 ) so Im not sure what to paint now or were to find out about the number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 [TABLE=class: tablebg, width: 100%] [TR=class: row2] [TD=class: profile] [/TD] [TD][TABLE=width: 100%] [TR] [TD]Send an email to Bovingdon Tank Museum Librarian@tankmuseum.org . It costs £15 and you get a scan of the record card/s emailed to you. [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 , (16 AE 75 ) so Im not sure what to paint now or were to find out about the number. Are you sure it is not perhaps 16 EA 75 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little ray Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 You are most probably right again and I am cross eyed, it would be "EA" But I will walk over the field were it is parked and check it out. I spent a hour rubbing the paint back just to find and numbers under neath. I still have to work out the paint but in hind sight with other vehicles running around it will be sand and black. Why would there be Blue on some spots coming through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Hi Clive, what do all these letters mean please as I have no idea what you are after. Ray sorry for the delay, I now have a proper PC & connection. These are what I am after, some may be familiar some may not be. The one at the top of the list was introduced in 1867 so the last 150 years of publications are of interest. AC – Army Circulars ACI – Air Council Instructions AESP - Army Equipment Support Publication AO – Army Orders COSA – Catalogue of Ordnance Stores & Ammunition CP – Chilwell Publications CR – Clothing Regulations DCI – Defence Council Instructions EMEC - Electrical & Mechanical Engineering Circulars EMEI - Electrical & Mechanical Engineering Instructions EMER – Electrical & Mechanical Engineering Regulations EMPL – Equipment Management Policy Letter EMPS – Equipment Management Policy Statement ER – Equipment Regulations ETS - Equipment Table Schedule JSP – Joint Service Publication LoC – Lists of Change LTI – Local Technical Instructions MAOS – Manual of Army Ordnance Stores MRA – Materiel Regulations of the Army RAOS – Regulations of Army Ordnance Stores REA – Regulations for the Equipment of the Army VAOS – Vocabulary of Army Ordnance Stores WMTI - Workshops Management Technical Instructions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little ray Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 Hi, now I have seen some of those titles around the old book sales and swap meets but here comes the big "But" would they be the same as the Australian Army use or would ours be different. Most of the equipment out here is American or European so that would be a change... Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daleheywoodtanks Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Thanks for phoning today Ray, and we'll speak again soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Hi, now I have seen some of those titles around the old book sales and swap meets but here comes the big "But" would they be the same as the Australian Army use or would ours be different. Most of the equipment out here is American or European so that would be a change... Ray Ray you would have the series in EMEI (AUST) as opposed to the British EMER. The content may be similar but would often include things relevant to or developed by that particular theatre. The structure would be broadly along similar lines but the detail of structure is different. For instance the Ferret series in UK is contained in EMER WHEELED VEHICLES V 620 - 629 whereas yours would be EMEI(AUST) VEHICLES N 400 - 409. To complicate it further these local instructions will have no direct commonality with other theatres eg EMEI(BAOR). To try to differentiate them from an EMER they should formally referred to as LOCAL E&MEI eg LOCAL E&MEI (N.IRELAND). Australia does not seem to use the "LOCAL" prefix. Whereas British controlled ones use "LOCAL" & even a matter that applies to just the UK it may not be in an EMER but a UK E&MEI. Then once there were EMECs as well! http://www.hmvf.co.uk/pdf/EMER4.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfire Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Ray, I'm interested in trying to get my hands on a roll of Trakmark to redo the interior of my Saracen; would you be interested in sorting something out to split shipping costs from the UK? As for paint, you have a lot of options. The FV432, like most British vehicles, did not have its own paint scheme (with the exception of the Berlin Brigade schemes, which were very particular to each variant of the vehicle that they were applied to) and instead adhered to the current British paint schemes for the time period and area of operation that you would like to represent. If you're interested in painting the very striking Berlin Brigade scheme, I highly recommend picking up a copy of Tankograd's "Armoured Vehicles of the British Infantry Brigade Berlin" (publication 9001). Their website indicates that it is out of stock, but I recently contacted them and they informed me that they had some copies. It is an excellent read and I'm debating painting my Saracen in it, even though it is a known anachronism. Basically you can pick and time and location and then use Clive's excellent documentation on British vehicle painting to work out an appropriate scheme: http://hmvf.co.uk/pdf/PAINTINGpart1.pdf http://hmvf.co.uk/pdf/PAINTINGpart2.pdf http://hmvf.co.uk/pdf/PAINTINGpart3.pdf FYI, yours looks like it was painted in IRR NATO green and black (the most common scheme for British vehicles from the early 80s onwards) and has since faded/colour shifted, which is a very common problem with that paint, as it is quite unstable and has a very short service life (around 2 years between coats, as far as I remember). Cheers, Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little ray Posted December 13, 2014 Author Share Posted December 13, 2014 Hi Terry, I just purchased a roll of Trakmark for the APC in the UK last week, so it there to be found Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfire Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Have you shipped it yet? That'll be the tricky part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little ray Posted December 14, 2014 Author Share Posted December 14, 2014 Yes Terry, its on the way now and the postage came to about eighty quid but we now have to get past the dirt police and customs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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