question DVLA - dating a vehicle for Historic taxation class

[Duncan76]

Ah, yes - the DVLA. And it was all going so well....

 

Right - the synopsis so far....

 

I bought an ex-AFS Commer Q4 back in May which is now tucked up in deepest Suffolk awaiting TLC. Pending that TLC, I thought "..wouldn't it be a good idea to get it back on the road legally speaking?".

 

It has a current V5 and isn't on SORN as it was last taxed back in 1995; it also has a plating and testing exemption issued by the Vehicle Inspectorate in 1994.

 

The current taxation class is PLG, so I thought "..about time to change this to Historic..". Although the vehicle was manufactured in 1954/55, it wasn't registered for use with the Home Office until 1964 (although the reg mark issued was not a 'B' plate - it's the old style letters and numbers - other Q4s were issued B plates. Strange). I have a copy of the original Registration Book.

 

Now, the V5 states that the date of first registration was 27th Jan 1964, so well pre-1974. However, through email and telephone correspondance with the DVLA yesterday, they will not budge on requiring proof of the manufacture date to re-classify it as Historic, even though they can see that the registration date easily pre-dates the Historic vehicle cut-off. Great.

 

I have tried to contact the 'Commer and Karrier Club' as listed in the DVLA's own guide on organisations that can date vehicles or confirm the manufacturing date - no luck. Written three months ago - no response, telephone number doesn't work. The British Motor Industry Heritage folks I don't think have data for Commer vehicles.

 

Can anyone recommend a good club that could help in dating the Q4, perhaps by seeing the vehicle in the flesh, confirming the chassis number and providing an extract from the Glass Guide?

 

Cheers, Duncan.

[griff66]

use mvt

[sirhc]

Duncan,

 

If the date of manufacture is already on the V5 then I don't see why you have to prove it again! My Sabre was built in 1973, to make it historic I just took the v5 to the post office with the taxation class box in section 7 filled in as historic. Walked out with a free tax disc and got a new v5 a few days later in the post.

 

Chris

[Duncan76]

Thanks Chris,

 

Sadly the date of manufacture isn't shown. My Land Rover series 3 109 ambulance has a note on the front of the V5 which says that it was decalred manufactured in 1978 hence it's an S plate. Of course, this stems from the Date in Service which was on the MoD release note and which I used to register it when I bought it. That date differs from the date of manufacture as I have the certificate from the BMIHT which says it was built nearly a year earlier in 1977! The plating and testing exemption for the Q4 from the Vehicle Inspectorate in 1994 states that it was built in 1954/55 hence as a commercial used unladen and built before 1960 it was MOT exempt. So, as the date of manufacture seems to be the 'be all and end all' (unless you register an MoD vehicle in which case it doesn't) the route seems to be to fork out some cash for someone to come and verify the chassis number.

 

Cheers, Duncan.

[Tony B]

I did get a recent update from DVLA on this. Posted on another thread.

 

If the taxation class is not already shown as 'Historic Vehicle' on the V5C for your vehicle, you will be able to change your taxation class at the point of relicensing at the Post Office®. The V5C must show a date of registration prior to the 01.01.1974. If this is not recorded on the V5C and the vehicle was manufactured prior to this date you will need to produce dating evidence and apply by post to DVLA, Swansea, SA99 1DZ.

 

Acceptable dating evidence can be obtained from:

• An extract from the manufacturer/factory record - these will have the chassis number of the vehicle against the month and year of production*

• An extract from the 'Glasses guide'- which is a comprehensive guide on production dates and includes chassis numbers

• If the vehicle has been imported and already registered, the original foreign registration certificate.

 

*A certified copy of the factory record (with the embedded stamp) will be acceptable only from the British Motor Industry Heritage Trust (BMIHT)

 

The keeper will need to write ‘Historic’ in the change to taxation class field in section 7 of the V5C and sign section 8.

 

If the application is successful, you will receive your tax disc within 2 weeks.

 

An updated V5C will be returned within 4 weeks. If a V62 form is submitted a V5C will be returned within 6 weeks.

 

So acording to thier own information, the vehicle should be changable on the VL5!

Edited September 6, 2014 by Tony B

[Duncan76]

Thanks Tony,

 

Interesting reading. Weird as the DVLA themselves say in INF34 the following:

 

 

The V5C "..must clearly show that the vehicle was made or first registered before the 1st January 1973.." (presumably now 1974).

 

I have highlighted the first registered because ther lady I spoke to yesterday and those I have corresponded with by email at DVLA all said that the date of registration doesn't count - the date of manufacture is key. Pfffft.

 

Anyway, have now contacted MVT to arrange an inspection so for £40 that should solve the problem once and for all and it can be correctly recorded as being built in 1954 / 1955, thus making it MOT exempt too without the need for the plating and testing exemption.

 

Duncan.

[Tony B]

I'd suggest you politley e mail them the above. :cool2: The details were obtained via a query on the DVLA web site. Though it does say you can change the class at the Post Office.

 

Change of tax class

 

You can request a change of tax class at any Post Office that issues tax discs. The Post Office can tell you which tax class your vehicle can have.

The Post Office will send your V5C or V62 to DVLA, who will send you an updated V5C.

 

https://www.gov.uk/change-vehicle-details-registration-certificate

 

Theres the link.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Tony B

[Richard Farrant]

Hi Duncan,

The chassis number would be prefixed 38A I think? In the army parts lists, which were produced by Commer, they list every chassis number in that particular contract, so I would imagine the books covering the Home Office contract would be the same, with the date of the publication it should be proof enough.

[Duncan76]

Yes - just tried to email them, however, the system seems to be down. The lady I spoke to on Friday was adamant that when changing the taxation class, the date of regsitration was almost irrelevant - it's the date of manufacture that counts. However, INF34 seems to be very clear that both count.

 

I might ring again on Monday.

 

Funnily enough, nobody from DVLA mentioned that you can also change it at the Post Office

 

Duncan.

[Tony B]

DVLA trying to keep thier jobs? Might be worth going to a Post Office changing the class and present DVLA with Fait Acompli.

[Brooky]

Thanks Chris,

 

Sadly the date of manufacture isn't shown. My Land Rover series 3 109 ambulance has a note on the front of the V5 which says that it was decalred manufactured in 1978 hence it's an S plate. Of course, this stems from the Date in Service which was on the MoD release note and which I used to register it when I bought it. That date differs from the date of manufacture as I have the certificate from the BMIHT which says it was built nearly a year earlier in 1977! The plating and testing exemption for the Q4 from the Vehicle Inspectorate in 1994 states that it was built in 1954/55 hence as a commercial used unladen and built before 1960 it was MOT exempt. So, as the date of manufacture seems to be the 'be all and end all' (unless you register an MoD vehicle in which case it doesn't) the route seems to be to fork out some cash for someone to come and verify the chassis number.

 

Cheers, Duncan.

d

 

 

Duncan go to the mvt website and get the verification phone number

Give me a call and I will talk you through the process

Chris

MVT Verification officer

[Duncan76]

Hi Duncan,

The chassis number would be prefixed 38A I think? In the army parts lists, which were produced by Commer, they list every chassis number in that particular contract, so I would imagine the books covering the Home Office contract would be the same, with the date of the publication it should be proof enough.

 

Ah yes, hadn't noticed that - I have Army and Civil Defence parts lists. The Civil Defence publication doesn't have a similar list of chassis numbers, just says 'Commencing Chassis No. 38A5585' on the cover - mine's nearly a couple of hunderd higher than that. Not sure they'd accept that anyway - an extract from the manufacturing records of the Glass Guide seems to be what they want for the verification. I'll still push DVLA as to why they won't run with the registration date as they say they will in INF34 though!

 

Duncan.

[Duncan76]

Well, in a fantastically short period of time, the MVT came up trumps. After joining, the paperwork was processed, a visit made to inspect the Commer Q4 in Suffolk on Tuesday with the verification letter arriving on my door mat on the Friday. Top marks to Chris Brooks, the Verification Officer, and the inspector for such a good service.

 

Anyway, now just got to insure it then send off the letter with the V5 and a V10 to DVLA, and hopefully it will shortly be Historic.

 

Duncan.

[Brooky]

Well, in a fantastically short period of time, the MVT came up trumps. After joining, the paperwork was processed, a visit made to inspect the Commer Q4 in Suffolk on Tuesday with the verification letter arriving on my door mat on the Friday. Top marks to Chris Brooks, the Verification Officer, and the inspector for such a good service.

 

Anyway, now just got to insure it then send off the letter with the V5 and a V10 to DVLA, and hopefully it will shortly be Historic.

 

Duncan.

 

Glad to have helped!!!

Chris Brook (no e no s) !!!!!

[Duncan76]

Hurrah! Just received the new V5 today for 519 ELM - with the addition of a note on the front saying that it was declared manufactured in 1955. A slight false start earlier in the week as the first V5 that they sent had the date of manufacture set as 'unknown'. However, a quick call beck to DVLA sorted that and another was issued. So it can now be taxed as Historic and is officially MOT exempt without the need for the plating and testing certificate.

 

Many thanks again to MVT and also DVLA.