Question on how racially/ethnically diverse is the military vehicle movement?

[tyler]

I somehow got to thinking how racially/ethnically diverse is the military vehicle movement?

 

I've been attending airshows abit longer than I've been attending MV shows so about 8 years and I've seen and met/seen a variety of people from different backgrounds but not so whilst attending MV shows.

 

So I thought I'd post the question on here to find out other peoples views on this question:

 

So how racially/ethnically diverse is the military vehicle movement?

 

[fv1609]

Tyler do we really have to bring this sort of thing up? What do you want quotas or something? I come across people in the hobby & the public who I suppose, if one has to think about it - but why should I, who are from minority groups. So what, the're just ordinary people with an interest & that's it. Are you suggesting we have to mentally subdivide people into us & others then perform calculations about it?

 

In my last job towards the end I couldn't refer people to a hospital without filling out a whole page of nonsense about their origins, which made my blood boil, we are all just people, does everybody have to have a label. Let's forget about boundaries, it shouldn't make any difference. People are people & that's it & let's just get on with life.

 

 

[tyler]

The reason I posted the question is because it is along the lines of a previous question which someone posted on here some months ago about weather the movement was doing enough to encourage younger people into it. Which provided a well thought out discussion about the hobby.

 

I'm not after quotas (that’s what the Nanny state does), I'm interested in people’s views. I've asked a question I've not suggested we have to mentally or physically for that matter subdivide people.

 

But the question asks "how racially/ethnically diverse is the military vehicle movement?” If people feel that it is or isn't diverse enough then they may feel the need to ask what should be done about it? But that’s for them to ask.

 

And surely any question relating to our hobby should be treated the same as any other and not brushed aside just because it is viewed as non PC or taboo to raise such a question. A hobby/anything can improve via self scrutiny, but to leave a question unanswered just because it may raise issues about the hobby is just foolish.

 

[Jessie The Jeep]

I think it's quite an interesting question. With wars that have happened all over the globe, there must have been vehicles of all eras scattered everywhere. However, from looking at the internet, from my observations, the military vehicle preservation movement seems to be predominantly a white European/North American passtime.

 

If this is correct, why? There are nations across the world proud of their general heritage, so what is it that makes us different, or are we just more vocal/public about what we do?

 

Steve

[sirhc]

Nothing should be done about it. People like what they like. We shouldn't force ethnic minorities to collect and restore historic military vehicles just because we don't think enough of them do it.

 

How many ethnic minorities are in to stamp collecting, model railways, fishing, or any other hobby?

 

Why don't they restore historic military vehicles in other countries? They probably can't afford to, the political situation prevents them from doing so or maybe they just spend the time working on the vehicles rather than writing about them on the internet?

 

Oh, and there are a lot of vehicle collectors/restorers in Australia and New Zeland too.

[ArtistsRifles]

It's a rewarding, if bank-draining, hobby.

It's open to any one who wants to spend the time and money caring for old battle horses.

 

Outside of that - at least as far as I'm concerned, whether you are black, white, brown or green and from mars is irrelevant. All are welcome. If a certain "grouping" ( and I really, really HATE that term) chooses not to become involved then it's their decision and, I would venture to say, their loss.

 

I can understand the security forces taking more than a passing interest if, say, young Moslems started buying into the MV scene and armour in particular but so long as they use the vehicles as we all do then there's no problem. Other than that issue though - who really cares about ethnic or racial grouping??

 

Put another way:

* We (as in the publicly available forum) are here.

* There are good shows throughout the season all over the country.

* The vehicles are available via channels available to the public (CMV etc.) as well as from the club journals.

* Anyone who wants to buy a vehicle is welcome to join the happy throng irrespective of any other consideration other than "Can they afford it" and has avenues open to them to do so.

 

If certain groups are perceived not to be part of the MV scene then it is because THEY have chosen not to join in, not that the MV scene has blocked them!! And that is their choice to make, Any attempt by the MV scene to start pulling people from these groups into the scene will,I believe, have the effect Clive has described. look at the state the Police Forces find themselves in now for having done exactly that.

 

As for being a primarily European/N. American thing - maybe it's because we have the disposable income and the relatively stable home environment to be able to do this?? I'm sure there are others in other countries who would love to be able to do what we do and envy us our freedom to do so but cannot themselves either because of financial issues or because their section of the world sufferes from unrest and private ownership of MV's is either banned or frowned upon severly??

[Enigma]

Not MV owner but a living history guy.

He is Dutch/Suriname (dark skin).

He portrays a member of the Princess Irene Brigade which did have coloured guys from Suriname.

 

I also know a guy from Dutch/Indonesian descent in a WC 52.

[Jack]

HMVF is the place for debate - as long as it follows the rules. Where else can you have a good clean exchange.

[rambo1969]

Perhaps the MV movement is just the same as the armed forces, there are more white people in the armed forces than ethnic minorities so therefore it follows that thier will be less ethnics involved in the MV movement.

 

 

[Markheliops]

Woops!!!

 

I am a fireman with a local Fire and Rescue Service and we have this racial equality and diversity stuff thrown at us every day.

 

In certain organisations and in the workplace, equality and diversity issues should be considered and adopted and I think they are a good thing. :-D

 

HOWEVER!!!

 

In my hobby!!!! Enough.

 

Every single person who owns a green machine does so for their own reasons. Me, I'm interested in the machinary and history of the equipment and the troops who used it. I'm sure we all have our own reasons for doing what we do.

 

I think it's great other like minded individuals are interested in the hobby I enjoy but I do not seek to encourage or promote my interest in military vehicles to other people, regardless of colour or origin.

 

It's a very thin line between promoting our hobby to others and trying to badger others to join in. If someone - anyone - wants to chat to me about MV's, I will talk with them all day long but I do not look at ways to draw people into the fold.

 

I'm not having a pop at the person who started the thread as the HMVF is the place where members should feel able to raise issues they want too discuss but this is a very difficult subject to debate - without getting people's backs up. Mention equality and diversity and people automatically go on the defensive - much like I'm doing now!!!

 

For what it's worth, if you like green machines - you're okay in my book. Likewise, if you can't stand the sight of green machines - that's okay as well. WHY - because other people's views about my hobby do not matter to me in the slightest. As long as my hobby doesn't hurt anyone and I am not demeaning the memories of the fallen - I'll just carry on doing what I do.

 

Markheliops.

[Snapper]

I've always thought groups like Rolling Thunder, who I really admire, would be enhanced by having the odd black face in the ranks. But I think the whole idea of re-enacting and the military thing is predominantly a, how do I say this nicely, indigenous thing when it comes to the UK. Can't speak for anywhere else. I don't remember ever seeing a black re-enactor or vehicle owner. The counter side to this is when a bureaucrat notices this fact and does the hobby a damage for lack of diversity. Maybe, and just maybe, this is why similar notions - however mischievious, make it in to AGM agendas.

I don't think this is a subject that can go anywhere as a long term discussion. We are who we are and we like what we like. While I would never claim to be politically correct and a paid up member of the Brotherhood of Man, I would never discriminate against people who wanted to adance the MV/military history scene. Nor do I think would anyone else. The more the merrier. The black gay lesbian vegan skateboarders can still put their cottage cheese in the clubhouse fridge - if they nick my KitKats they will get the same response as anyone else. HMVF polo shirts come to fit body size not content.

[Great War truck]

I have done my bit commenting on such diverse issues, so will keep my trap shut on this one. However, if you want to see a picture of a black re-enactor and his Chevy, click hereand scroll down a bit.

 

http://www.vehiclesofvictory.com/Submitted%20Photos.htm

 

Tim (too)

[MiketheBike]

I think its an interesting question, not from a "measurement/statistics" point of view, but just from a "these are the types of guys/girls invloved". If we asked "how many women are interested in MVs", it would not get an adverse reaction?

 

Anyhow, that said, I think just being interested in Armour is what floats my boat...god only knows why! My main obstacles were (and still are) cash and dry storage (getting the kids on my side helped in the eventual "wearing the wife down" process :roll: )

I would not say I had a huge interest in war (although I have some strong views about how we (mis)treat our current and old troops and their families!!!) I have more interest in the machinery, the mechanics and the sheer scale of the engineering. My view of a nice looking machine appears to be ugly in others eyes (pigs, saracens etc), although the ferret is kinda cute.

 

So there you have it.....two trips to Beltring, got hooked on wheeled armour (from a couple of displays, one behind that hotdog stand in that little field...all very nicely set out) and speaking to a few guys who were passionate about showing me their vehicles, getting poorer as each week goes by, but grinining every time I go out in it.

 

sorry...what was the question?

[Snapper]

Moving on.......

[Enigma]

Here 2 coloured guys from last weekend.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a264/T214/WaalwijkMei2007042Small.jpg[/img]

 

Future MV owners? My brothers kids.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a264/T214/WaalwijkMei2007013Small.jpg[/img]

 

Re-enactor, Dutch Princess Irene Brigade.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a264/T214/IMAG0017Small.jpg[/img]