DENNIS tipper probably post 1942

[christianV]

Hi,

 

I was wondering if someone had any more info on this type ( i posted a few pics in my introduction post but below are a few more ).

W restored this from complete scrap to roadworthy ( and tipping ) with my dad ( he's the old man driving a belgian brown K2 ambulance around europe for the past 25 years ).

 

This Dennis was something realy special we had never seen before ( and since i must say ) and i know it was called pig but i think it's rather funny and even cute in some way.

Anyway it drove all right untill a screw from the air filter flew through the carb on our way back from a show leading to a massive BANG and me towing it all the way back with our all-round Katy. No valve was hurt though wich wasa real relief.

 

The id plate is not clear , it was bashed in somewhere along the way and i'm not sure about the WD n° , it looks like it's a 7 figure one though , and a nice bloke in Port en Bessin ( driving the K5 ) told me that 7 figures is post 1942.

 

So it's post 1942 but it definetely has a WD n° so it was in service during WWII but when was it made? , are there any signs that could give us a clue and where were they used ( except to fill the roads in Normandy ...).

 

Below is a picture with captured POW's escorted by british soldiers ( although the uniform of the fist guard is unknown to me) in what seems to be northern France (the Ardennes by the looks of the hills and houses) or maybe Belgium or the Eiffel area.

 

If you have any info i would appreciate it ( and maybe it would give my dad the final push to buying a tablet or computer :-))

[Runflat]

Goo do something different. You may find this string of interest: http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?24752-what-happened-to-the-colection-at-grange-cavern

[79x100]

Christian, as Richard Farrant indicated on your intro thread, your WD Serial number can be narrowed down by reference to the relevant contract. Catalogue Reference 14 relates to Dennises' 14th WD contract - S2081 for 700 vehicles (L5218661 - L5219360) I think there was a small 'typo' in Richard's post as it looks like L5219234 to me, not 9324.

 

My detailed study of WD records relates solely to motorcycles and although contracts were often issued long in advance and it is difficult to be definite, we can draw some broad conclusions by looking at other manufacturers.

 

BSA Motorcycles received a contract S2603 (C5207518 - C5215517) dated 3/3/1943 with delivery to commence December 1943 and Norton were contracted under S2602 also dated 3/3/1943, delivery from January 1944 but with serials C5266965 - 5271964. This probably means that your Dennis contract dates from late 1942 with delivery scheduled for sometime in 1943.

 

However, if you want to do the research, there are a number of things which will probably help you to be more specific.

 

It is highly likely that the RAOC 'Contract Receipt Card' for S2081 is held at the Tank Museum at Bovington. If you're able to obtain a copy of this, it may well show contract date and commencement of deliveries etc.

 

In addition there may be additional information in the Ministry of Supply ledgers held in The National Archive at Kew. These are somewhat haphazard and contain often little more than financial information but there may be extra clues. They are searchable but it would mean a visit in person.

 

This is an example of what they can hold - the entry for an earlier Dennis tipper contract (V3934 - L4426517 - L4427052). By coincidence, it was on the same page as a motorcycle entry. I don't seem to have S2081..

 

 

It looks in this entry that even though the contract dates from June 1941, the Ministry were still arguing about delivery charges in July 1942 !

 

Wouldn't you just love to find those spare engines gearboxes and axles ? 10% spare engines and 5% spare gearboxes seems to have been a standard addition to vehicle contracts.

[Richard Farrant]

Christian, as Richard Farrant indicated on your intro thread, your WD Serial number can be narrowed down by reference to the relevant contract. Catalogue Reference 14 relates to Dennises' 14th WD contract - S2081 for 700 vehicles (L5218661 - L5219360) I think there was a small 'typo' in Richard's post as it looks like L5219234 to me, not 9324.

 

 

 

 

 

Well spotted, on of my typos, one finger types faster than the other!

 

For Dennis delivery dates, it may be of interest to Christian that the Surrey county archives have a lot, if not all, the Dennis factory records. I once obtained a build sheet for a 1930 fire engine that was built for the NSW fire service in Australia, so quite likely they have record of the tipper.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Christian,

 

Good to see a rare Dennis restored! I wouldn't mind seeing that one at the XXX corps event......or maybe Wings and Wheels in Ursel(?)

 

Talking about Dennis and Port-en-Bessin; I presume you know these pictures (?);

 

 

 

source: http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205087325

 

 

 

source: http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205205855

 

 

 

Alex

Edited June 19, 2014 by Alex van de Wetering

[Degsy]

The tipper manufacturers may also have some records, now known as Edbro and part of Jost group they are still in Bolton.

[christianV]

Christian,

 

Good to see a rare Dennis restored! I wouldn't mind seeing that one at the XXX corps event......or maybe Wings and Wheels in Ursel(?)

 

Talking about Dennis and Port-en-Bessin; I presume you know these pictures (?);

 

 

 

source: http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205087325

 

 

 

source: http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205205855

 

 

 

Alex

 

Thanks Alex,

 

NO, i didn't know any of these fantatstic pictures . Never immagined they existed , you don't know how happy i am , after hours and hours looking for something not even close to this. So now i know why Richard was talking about filling holes in Normandy...

We always thought they were only used on the Home Front , and execpt for that pic with POW i never found anything involving them on the continent.

As for Ursel i'm trying to convincee my dad to take it to Arnhem... But the fuel costs are so high ...

The Austin , the Fordson and the Dennis together - for probably one last important anniversary that dad could attend to driving his own truck - now that would be something i'd like to be part of.

But maybe Ursel is a more realistic goal . Ill let you know.

Thanks again for the pics, dad's gonna love them.

[christianV]

Goo do something different. You may find this string of interest: http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?24752-what-happened-to-the-colection-at-grange-cavern

 

Sounds interesting but i wouldn't want to give him any false hope , we found ours in Belgium , so unless someone brought those rusty parts over to the continent and never even began any restoration on it i doubt it's the same truck.

Would be nice though...

I'll see if we can get any info on where the previous owner got it from.

[christianV]

Well spotted, on of my typos, one finger types faster than the other!

 

For Dennis delivery dates, it may be of interest to Christian that the Surrey county archives have a lot, if not all, the Dennis factory records. I once obtained a build sheet for a 1930 fire engine that was built for the NSW fire service in Australia, so quite likely they have record of the tipper.

 

 

Thanks again for that extra piece of information Richard, the puzzle is slowly starting to take shape.

[christianV]

Well spotted, on of my typos, one finger types faster than the other!

 

For Dennis delivery dates, it may be of interest to Christian that the Surrey county archives have a lot, if not all, the Dennis factory records. I once obtained a build sheet for a 1930 fire engine that was built for the NSW fire service in Australia, so quite likely they have record of the tipper.

 

 

Thanks again for that extra piece of information Richard, the puzzle is slowly starting to take shape.

[christianV]

Christian, as Richard Farrant indicated on your intro thread, your WD Serial number can be narrowed down by reference to the relevant contract. Catalogue Reference 14 relates to Dennises' 14th WD contract - S2081 for 700 vehicles (L5218661 - L5219360) I think there was a small 'typo' in Richard's post as it looks like L5219234 to me, not 9324.

 

My detailed study of WD records relates solely to motorcycles and although contracts were often issued long in advance and it is difficult to be definite, we can draw some broad conclusions by looking at other manufacturers.

 

BSA Motorcycles received a contract S2603 (C5207518 - C5215517) dated 3/3/1943 with delivery to commence December 1943 and Norton were contracted under S2602 also dated 3/3/1943, delivery from January 1944 but with serials C5266965 - 5271964. This probably means that your Dennis contract dates from late 1942 with delivery scheduled for sometime in 1943.

 

However, if you want to do the research, there are a number of things which will probably help you to be more specific.

 

It is highly likely that the RAOC 'Contract Receipt Card' for S2081 is held at the Tank Museum at Bovington. If you're able to obtain a copy of this, it may well show contract date and commencement of deliveries etc.

 

In addition there may be additional information in the Ministry of Supply ledgers held in The National Archive at Kew. These are somewhat haphazard and contain often little more than financial information but there may be extra clues. They are searchable but it would mean a visit in person.

 

This is an example of what they can hold - the entry for an earlier Dennis tipper contract (V3934 - L4426517 - L4427052). By coincidence, it was on the same page as a motorcycle entry. I don't seem to have S2081..

 

 

It looks in this entry that even though the contract dates from June 1941, the Ministry were still arguing about delivery charges in July 1942 !

 

Wouldn't you just love to find those spare engines gearboxes and axles ? 10% spare engines and 5% spare gearboxes seems to have been a standard addition to vehicle contracts.

 

 

Thank you very much , that's impressive -and precise -information there , i will try the RAOC to narrow it down a bit but knowing it's probably 1942 already helps me a lot .

I never thought those official records still existed, it must be like digging in a gold mine, wandering through those archives.

[christianV]

The tipper manufacturers may also have some records, now known as Edbro and part of Jost group they are still in Bolton.

 

That's another clever way to look , didn't thnk of that , thanks for the info

[Alex van de Wetering]

I think this is the picture Paul Bish mentioned in the other thread;

 

 

source: churchilltank.com

 

I am not sure what the original source is for the pic, but I have seen it in a publication of David Fletcher before. Picture was taken in Germany, just across the Dutch border.

 

Alex

Edited June 20, 2014 by Alex van de Wetering

[christianV]

I think this is the picture Paul Bish mentioned in the other thread;

 

 

source: churchilltank.com

 

I am not sure what the original source is for the pic, but I have seen it in a publication of David Fletcher before. Picture was taken in Germany, just across the Dutch border.

 

Alex

 

Thanks , another one to add to our collection .

[christianV]

Runflat's post intrigued me, to say the least

 

So i made a call to find out exactly what the previous owner knew and putting everything we know so far together ,this is the story of the little "pig".

 

Most probably build in 1942 with WD n°L5219234 For service in 1943 our Dennis served bravely in Africa.

 

After the war it was shipped with tons of other stuff to Marseilles where they were then loaded on a train to Brussels and finaly arrived in Sterrebeek at a military depot to be sold as surplus.

 

A very wise coal merchant then bought it and used it for many many years untill there was not realy much left of it.

 

Then a young man in his sixties found it and thought " ok,i can still do this , iv've seen worse " and took care of it.

 

I should say intensive care here because what i remember is a pile of metal and ( luckily ) some wooden parts that would provide a way to recreate that intriguing bodywork.

 

So, Alex where can i find a picture of the little Dennis in Egypt ?

 

 

Anyway , just wanted to say this forum is amazing

By the number of replies we had.

By the quality of these replies.

 

I thought people would go " a what ? , dennis tipper? " but i'm very glad to be proven wrong.

 

Thanks again for all your help so far.

[christianV]

Just for information , i found out today that the first picture i posted ( with the POW's) was taken in august 44 in Vernonnet (Normandy ) when the allies tried to cut off the germans from crossing the Seine.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Christian,

 

Not Egypt...but here is another Dennis on an IWM image

 

http://media.iwm.org.uk/iwm/mediaLib/30/media-30674/large.jpg?action=d&cat=photographs

 

source:http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections

A 23947

Edited June 2, 2015 by Alex van de Wetering

[rucsac]

Anybody got a picture of a Dennis Tipper I could use for book I'm writing.   My g/father was a platoon commander RASC in WWII and they had these. He was killed in Caen 1944.