Allis Chalmers WM

[jamie meachin]

I have ecently bought a Allis Chalmers WM crawler, 1942. I am wondering if anyone can help me as to what they would have been used for in the war? Would they have been used in combat? There is plenty of green paint under the orange and I know the WM is the military version of the M. Any help would be very grateful.

[wally dugan]

HI JAMIE

 

l see paul found a home for the ALLIS paul asked me about these what i found out was most of the Ms that came in to britian where used by WAR ARG for work bringing land in to use during the war WMs where used in smaller numbers

by the minstry of supply because of the dozer blade which may acount for the remains of the green paint

[David Herbert]

Jamie,

 

The 'W' in WM tells you only that it is a wide gauge machine, ie the track assemblies are further apart. A standard narrow gauge machine is just designated M.

 

Dozer kits were made for both by several manufacturers as at that time none of the crawler tractor manufacturers made their own dozer kits and quite an industry developed converting crawler tractors into dozers, graders, cranes, etc.

 

The US military had almost every model of crawler tractor made, quite often identical to civilian ones except that they were green, but there were also heavily modified versions such as the ones that were designed for pulling artillery that had front mounted winches, extra seating and military towing arrangements on the back. Otherwise standard tractors used by engineer units tended to have full lighting and guards on the front and in the track frames (to keep mud away from the rollers) but both of these features tend to get removed in their later lives.

 

Similarly machines that were equiped originally as dozers often lost the dozer kit when they were used for agricultural purposes post war but it is usually possible to tell as the holes where the bits were bolted on have the burned off remains of the bolts or are left open, whereas they would have been plugged with wooden plugs when new, if not needed, to protect the threads.

 

I think that it would be most unlikely that your tractor would have been used in combat as it is hard to think of a role for it that could not have been better filled by a proper military vehicle but you can be sure that one found itself being shot at somewhere. Still it is a nice tractor and relatively rare, most Ms in the UK are narrow gauge as they were used by the War-Agg for ploughing.

 

David

[paulbrook]

Fine looking tractor you have there........................:-D

[jamie meachin]

Jamie,

 

The 'W' in WM tells you only that it is a wide gauge machine, ie the track assemblies are further apart. A standard narrow gauge machine is just designated M.

 

Dozer kits were made for both by several manufacturers as at that time none of the crawler tractor manufacturers made their own dozer kits and quite an industry developed converting crawler tractors into dozers, graders, cranes, etc.

 

The US military had almost every model of crawler tractor made, quite often identical to civilian ones except that they were green, but there were also heavily modified versions such as the ones that were designed for pulling artillery that had front mounted winches, extra seating and military towing arrangements on the back. Otherwise standard tractors used by engineer units tended to have full lighting and guards on the front and in the track frames (to keep mud away from the rollers) but both of these features tend to get removed in their later lives.

 

Similarly machines that were equiped originally as dozers often lost the dozer kit when they were used for agricultural purposes post war but it is usually possible to tell as the holes where the bits were bolted on have the burned off remains of the bolts or are left open, whereas they would have been plugged with wooden plugs when new, if not needed, to protect the threads.

 

I think that it would be most unlikely that your tractor would have been used in combat as it is hard to think of a role for it that could not have been better filled by a proper military vehicle but you can be sure that one found itself being shot at somewhere. Still it is a nice tractor and relatively rare, most Ms in the UK are narrow gauge as they were used by the War-Agg for ploughing.

 

David

 

Thanks for that David, you learn something new every day. Any information is new information to me.

[paulbrook]

I am sure this one was fitted with a blade - it has cutouts for the controls at the rear plus the chap I got it from told me that the chap he got it from told him it was an ex. dozer version.

 

That of course is not 100% definitive but reasonable enough evidence (at least for me!!).

 

It would certainly be nice to see it with a blade.

[jamie meachin]

I'm with you on that Paul. There is evidence it was a dozer, I have ordered a manual which has information on blades and winches for this model of tractor.

[HWade]

Thats a nice tractor, I had a model m which was the narrow gauge, they also did an orchard model that you sat lower down on. If you sit on yours and look forward to the bulk head I was told that the machines built for the military had a hole cut in the bulk head so you could reach through to change from petrol to TVO, also they had a front tow hook on like yours.They also shared the same engine as the Allis chalmers U wheeled tractor. The early models also never had a starter they were crank start with a handle, my old M was always a very good starter.regards Howard heres a couple of pics of mine.

[paulbrook]

I am not sure if the electric starter was available for the Ms of this era (it certainly was for the U's) but Jamie's parts book will list it if it were. All the Us right from the early days had the boss on the bellhousing to mount the starter motor and there is a spare pulley on the magneto drive that ran the dynamo and, being the same engine my guess is that the Ms were the same. There was no regulator/cutout box as the engine ran at a pretty constant 1200 rpm (and in my experience was about the best governed engine ever!)

 

Someone told me recently that a series 1 landy starter motor will fit.

 

As for the winch my U has one run from the PTO but I am not sure how the PTO set up worked on the crawlers.

 

But they are great starters if everything is set right - at least when starting from cold.

[snort]

I had a couple of M crawlers, good they were too. There is a couple of scrap ones at Burwell in Cambs. that I have seen.

 

Interesting that the Wheeled U had the World Speed Record once, on the same engine as yours!:-)

[HWade]

The M that I had did have electric start, and I also had the dynamo on mine as well, I did have to make the running boards for mine,I also had front lights but not the correct ones as I could not source them, the U that I have is crank start as there is no hole in bell housing for the starter. regards speed I know in top gear on the road with the U its very fast. There is also a company in the UK that will make the seat cushions and arm rests. Regards Howard

[paulbrook]

I still have the U that my grandfather bought and imported in 1938 - he put every penny he had into it (and I think he paid 427 quid for it) and the reason he bough it rather than anything else was its power and speed - plus the fact that it was on pneumatic tyres.

 

He took up contract work in N Lancs and the Lythe Valley in S Westmorland with it and did really well with it - not only could it pull a 3 furrow plough but it could belt from farm to farm at a breakneck 12 MPH (believe me that feels blinking fast when you are driving it!!) thus beating the fordson boys hands down in both the speed that work could be done and minimising the time taken to get from job to job.

 

During WW2 it started with the War Ag but was soon co-opted for timberwork in Grizedale forest, again because of its road-going prowess.

 

After the war dad ran a handful of Allis tractors up until the early 1970s but the original remains in my posession.

 

I think there was a whole race series with Us which went from state fair to state fair in order to champion pneumatic tyres - and I also think that the 68MPH was acheived by John Cobb.

 

Brave. Very brave...............

[Alun Bush]

I have ecently bought a Allis Chalmers WM crawler, 1942. I am wondering if anyone can help me as to what they would have been used for in the war? Would they have been used in combat? There is plenty of green paint under the orange and I know the WM is the military version of the M. Any help would be very grateful.[ATTACH=CONFIG]81236[/ATTACH]

I have several photos of WM Dozers. One is of the green military kind. It belonged to the, CWACs. Don't seem to see how to inert it into this message.

Maybe this is right.

The photo belongs to my brother John Bush. He would have taken it in 1948.

 

The Equipment is Buckeye, Ohio. I never saw any other make on those tractors.

I was talking to a friend who drove one last evening and he said they were OK unless yo let the cable go slack, "And then they were a bugger." he said.

 

I used to have a Cat D7 with cable blade but the cable was short and on the front of the radiator

I drove an Allis HD7 with hydraulic equipment for a few days once and nearly bruised my knees off. Would have been OK for midgets to drive. It had a nice GM engine

Alun