Ex-boy Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Hi all, Nothing special, just some photos taken by Tech Group REME in 1965 (it says on the back), which may be of use. The originals are free to anyone who can find a use for them. A Happy New Year to one and all. Steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferrettkitt Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Hi Steve, If no one has said yes please yet I wouldn't mind having them I'll pm you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hall Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 (edited) It looks like its a British L3 conversion. It may be that its a experimental/pre production version as all the conversions I've seen and been told about, dont have the marking shown in your photos. I have the same markings on my L3A2 and it came from a place that may have been gifted a experimental gun. I also note that the photo shows the L3A3 fixed gun whereas my gun is set up as a flexible A2. Edited December 31, 2012 by Chris Hall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hall Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Hi Steve, If no one has said yes please yet I wouldn't mind having them I'll pm you Andy, if you get them, could you email me some hi-res copies/scans? Cheers, Chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hall Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 (edited) I managed to to get a zoom in and it is a L3A1 or 3, I also just twigged that it must be a before and after conversion comparison or a seperate 1919A4 and L3A3 comparison set as the 1st photo dosn't show the conversion markings and the bolt is not blued or is worn. Normal L3 conversion markings. Edited December 31, 2012 by Chris Hall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferrettkitt Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Andy, if you get them, could you email me some hi-res copies/scans? Cheers, Chris. Hi Chris, More than happy too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-boy Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 I managed to to get a zoom in and it is a L3A1 or 3, I also just twigged that it must be a before and after conversion comparison or a seperate 1919A4 and L3A3 comparison set as the 1st photo dosn't show the conversion markings and the bolt is not blued or is worn. Normal L3 conversion markings. That's brilliant. I was in two minds whether to bother posting them, as they seemed to me to be just common or garden pictures. I'm so glad I did - you learn something every day. The pictures will be in the post to Andy tomorrow. Steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretfixer Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 (edited) This was a standard proceedure when the guns went through a Main workshop for overhaul/re-parkerising. They can, as seen in the two respective photographs. Be marked in either positions on the reciever. The Round ended oval variant, is simply an area of the ORIGINAL wartime markings being milled out to remove all the nomencleture. & the re-engraved with the British Markings. The one marked along the reciever near the cocking handle slot. is done to leave the original wartime markings in place. The original markings can still be read, but they have two lines engraved through the writing. To 'Bar' them out. It was down to the practice of whichever workshop favoured either method really. I have handled a few of these In Deact Form. & inspected & repaired many HUNDEREDS of them in Service! One of my all time favourite Smallarms. EXTREMELY reliable & dependable is use! The only things that broke on them occassionably, were the firing pin tips. they used to snap off as the metal cyrstallised through constantly dry firing when easing springs after clearing the guns. (Work hardening the metal) The Brits did a conversion later on ALL of the browning .30" Cal Mgs. They then fired from the open bolt method. As opposed to the closed bolt method, originaly designed. This Prevented 'cook off's through overheating of the barrel. Due to prolonged burts of firing. By 'users' with an 'Excess of Zeal'!.......It DID work! The ONLY difference between the A2 & the A3 was: They BOTH fired from the Open Bolt. The A2 was left in original issue form except for the open bolt mod. & the A3 had a buffer plate WITHOUT a pistol grip. & the foresight block was removed from the reciever. As SOME guns would not fit into the turret mount of SOME Saracens & Ferret Scout cars. The foresight block assembly was only screwed onto the front of the reciever anyway. So a spare was kept in the Tools & spare parts box. For use as a dismounted MG on the tripod when desired. Edited January 2, 2013 by ferretfixer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hall Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 A quick and hopefully easy question for you ferretfixer, Is the L3A1 and 2 simply a redesignation of the 1919A4, so closed bolt fixed and flexible, and A3 and A4 the rear sear open bolt conversion? Or, are they as I suspect, A1 and A2 rear sear/open bolt conversions and the A3 and A4 are rear sear/open bolt conversions plus the trigger mod? I ask as my own A2 has the original profile trigger but is still in the open bolt configuration. I've looked at mant L3A1 to A4 guns (But not been able to examin in detail) and even reference material is contradictory and inaccurate, Ian Skennerton states in his SAIS on the L3 that the A1 and A2 are rear sear conversions and that the A3 and A4 have had trigger conversions plus the rear sear conversions. Many other references state that the A1 and A2 are simply re-designated 1919A4s with closed bolt and the A3 and A4 are the open bolt conversions. So I am assuming that the A1 and A2 have curved triggers and modified for open bolt and the A3 and A4 have the square trigger mods and open bolt mods. Would this be correct? Cheers, Chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretfixer Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Hello Chris, you are correct in your assumptions! The A1 & A2 had the trigger bars chopped & rewelded to shorter converted section of of steel to opperate the ineternal actions. The A3 & A4 were identical open bolt conversions, but made a LOT simpler by the replacment of the actual trigger bars by the more squarer versions. The reason for the intoduction of the 'squared' Pattern, was because the guns were MOSTLY fitted into coax or Armoured vehicle mountings. To that end, the bearing portions of the mounting linkages. that came up into contact with the trigger end, were a better surface area of contact putting less strain on the internal workings of the gun. Not as comfortable to fire in the hand as the original profile round ended varaints. But it was no big deal either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hall Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Cheers for that, that confirms my theory and dispells the crap on the net! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretfixer Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Forgot to add. A LOT of the British In service M2 .30" Cal tripods, also hade the area on the top of the 'Triangle' section. Milled away removing the WWII Nomencleture. Similar to the picture of one of the guns shown here on the forum. I have an example of this in my own collection. A LOT of this work was done by the Armourers shops, sending the stripped down top componants. Over to the engravers workshop for marking after milling. The reason REALLY behind all this. (& you WONT find it in Official Publications!) is that it ensured (Along with everything else that went through the engravers shop) a steady flow of work on the books. IE: When it came to cutting overtime or downsizing/redundancies within departments. The amount of work flowing through each workshop could justify the retention of certain staff! My uncle (A Famous R.E.M.E Major) even had his own WWII medals (The stars) engraved on the reverse! They can be viewed in the R.E.M.E Museum in Arborfield, Berks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hall Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 I've been keeping an eye out for one of these myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretfixer Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Yep, same as mine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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