question CCKW Starting Problem

[Vulture]

Chaps :help:

 

Planned to take the truck for a run out this afternoon, but.....it wouldn't start Or to be more precise it fired up for a few seconds but then died on me.

 

What I do know is:

a) The Condenser and Points are new.

b) The points gap is correct.

c) I've check the inside of the distributor cap, the contacts are clean, as is the rotor arm.

d) It started okay last week.

e) We have fuel in the tank, and its only about 2 months old.

f) We have fuel showing in the in-line fuel filter between the pump and the carb.

g) When I initially started it, it ran for a few seconds at a high tick-over then died.

h) If I squirt some easy start down the carb (with the filter off), it will catch, but as soon as I put my foot on the accelerator, it dies.

 

Everything (I think) points to a fuel problem. I've looked through the manual, and am slightly lost :confused: as to which bit to tackle first in terms of trouble shooting :n00b:.

 

I would welcome your wise counsel gentlemen.

 

Kind regards to all

 

Vulture

[Tony B]

Check your lift pump is getting enough fuel up to the carb. If you have a manual lift on it try that.

[Big ray]

Disconnect the fuel line at the carb, check that the pump is delivering fuel, it could be that the diaphram in the fuel pump is perforated. The fact that the engine ran at fast idle when started indicates lack of fuel. I have a Jimmy, always pay particular attention to the fuel pump, if it does perforate the petrol runs directly into the sump..... the first indication would be a dropping off of oil pressure as the oil becomes adulterated with the petrol.

[R Cubed]

Well not such a good girl then ( in reply to my other post today !!!!!!!!!!)

 

Sounds as the other posters have said that it looks like a fuel problem, a quick thing first is if the fuel pump down below the oil filter has a manual priming lever on the side of it make sure it is not stuck up and stopping the pump from working, should be in the down position.

 

The next best thing is to disconnect the fuel hose to the carb and use the priming lever to see if the pump will pump fuel, if no lever on pump, disconnect 6volt or 12 volt ( which ever you have as a supply ) wire to H.T. Coil and crank with starter this stops high voltage sparks jumping about with all that fuel about.

 

Good luck, just think all these things are happening now and once sorted you should not need to do them again for years.

[JOURNEYMAN]

Hi vulture,

don,t know if this will help. Move the priming lever under your fuel pump up and down to pump fuel up to the carb. As the fuel begins to flow , you will feel resistance when moving the lever and if you put your head close to the carb you will hear fuel being squirted into the carb. When the carb is full,the squirting noise will stop and the priming lever will no longer have any resistance ,it will go floppy. If the lever has little or no resistance on it , i would suspect the fuel pump is blocked or the diaphragm is punctured. You could also undo the fuel filter to check the filter for fuel/dirt. When my gmc is cold it is sometimes easier to start by giving it 3 or 4 quick dabs on the throttle rather than using the choke. When the truck has been standing for a while , the fuel has a tendency to run back towards the tank. Just a last thought , has the fuel tap between the tank and the filter/pump been turned off ?

Hope this helps,

steve.

 

Ps have you seen any dirt in your inline filter which may suggest dirt in the carb/blocked jets ?

[Vulture]

Guys

Thanks for the suggestions, much appreciated. Weather permitting I'll work through some of them tomorrow morning.

Kind regards

Vulture

[Vulture]

Journeyman, Cubed, Big Ray and Tony B

Cleaning round the fuel pump today and thinking about the advice given, I suddenly realised the problem :idea: was there right in front of me ! :blush::blush::blush::blush::blush::blush::blush::blush: Ahhhhh.. When I used the primer lever yesterday (prior to starting the engine for the first time), the lever stayed up.. (deep sigh) :embarrassed::embarrassed::embarrassed: which of course starved the carb of fuel !! Such a stupid mistake :n00b: !! Putting the primer lever down, when I cranked the engine over it started straight away ! :dancinggirls:

 

Hey ho, not a mistake I'll make again.... (I hope). :nut:

 

Kind regards to all

 

Vulture

[Tony B]

How do you think we know what to advise you? We've all done such things :-D

[deadline]

The primer arm shouldn't 'stick' in the up position. If it does you need to take off the pump and take it apart. 99% of the time you have worn a notch in the pump link. If you don't have a spare then you can weld the notch in the arm up and file it smooth.

 

 

 

 

This is from TM9-1827A (free download from http://www.tm9-801.com/tm9-1828a/index.php )

 

Of the three pumps I have rebuilt for the jeep and CCKW all have had significant notches worn into the shaft.

[Vulture]

 

The primer arm shouldn't 'stick' in the up position. If it does you need to take off the pump and take it apart. 99% of the time you have worn a notch in the pump link. If you don't have a spare then you can weld the notch in the arm up and file it smooth.[ATTACH=CONFIG]58106[/ATTACH]This is from TM9-1827A (free download from http://www.tm9-801.com/tm9-1828a/index.php )Of the three pumps I have rebuilt for the jeep and CCKW all have had significant notches worn into the shaft.

Deadline, thanks for that. It doesn't feel like there is a spring there, as there is no 'sprung' feel to the primer arm at all. I'm away from home at the moment, but at the weekend I'll investigate. Kind regards Vulture

[Jack]

DAMMIT!!!

 

For once I was able to answer this!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

First time in 8 years of HMVF:-|:cry::blush:

[Degsy]

DAMMIT!!!

 

For once I was able to answer this!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

First time in 8 years of HMVF:-|:cry::blush:

Okay well here's one especially for you then, ONLY JACK TO ANSWER THIS. Battery and starter believed to be ok but truck will only start with the use of jump leads. What's the answer Jack?

[Big ray]

How do you think we know what to advise you? We've all done such things :-D

 

Correct, including myself.

[Tony B]

Correct, including myself.

An Expert is someone who never makes mistakes! How do you become an Expert? Make the mistakes.

But never be to proud to A) Pass on your mistakes B) Learn from other's!

[deadline]

The spring is not for the primer arm. The spring keeps the arm against the fuel pump eccentric on the cam shaft so it doesn't bounce (think like a valve spring) the spring also forces the arm down, which allows the diaphragm to be pushed up.

 

The TMs don't show the AC fuel pump with a primer arm. The primer arm shaft has a notch cut in it. When the primer arm is 'down' the lever arm actually fits in the notch. When you pull the primer arm up, it rotates the primer arm shaft and edge of the notch raises the lever arm to actuate the diaphragm. What happens is the primer shaft wears a notch in the lever arm.. and that notch catches the primer shaft.

 

Here's a pic of a very lightly worn arm.. you can just see the indent where the primer shaft notch is hitting it. One of my fuel pumps had a notch over 1mm deep.. the primer lever didn't even move the arm it was so worn down... a quick weld and file and good as new.

 

The above part is included in rebuild kits.

Edited February 29, 2012 by deadline

[Jack]

Okay well here's one especially for you then, ONLY JACK TO ANSWER THIS. Battery and starter believed to be ok but truck will only start with the use of jump leads. What's the answer Jack?

 

- I have a cracking idea. I will start a forum so I can get the answer to things just like that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

........I will be back in 8 years.:blush:

[Tony B]

Actaually ! Why not ? A crib sheet of symptoms and possible causes can be very useful. Spongey brakes- check fluid adjust shoes etc. Or particular funnies associated with certain vehicles. Such as drain the oil on a 101 V8, pack the oil pump with petroleum jelly or it won't pick the oil up again.

[Degsy]

Jack, is that another way of telling us you've forgotten already:n00b:

[Joris]

Actaually ! Why not ? A crib sheet of symptoms and possible causes can be very useful. Spongey brakes- check fluid adjust shoes etc. Or particular funnies associated with certain vehicles. Such as drain the oil on a 101 V8, pack the oil pump with petroleum jelly or it won't pick the oil up again.

 

Like a vehicle FAQ? Sounds like an idea!

[deadline]

Or maybe they could WRITE A BOOK about these old trucks. You know, written by the manufacturer when they were made? With pictures and troubleshooting charts.

 

Man, that would be SWEET!

 

:laugh:

[N.O.S.]

Or maybe they could WRITE A BOOK about these old trucks. You know, written by the manufacturer when they were made? With pictures and troubleshooting charts.

 

Man, that would be SWEET!

 

:laugh:

 

:n00b::rotfl: The phrase "flogging a dead horse" springs to mind. :-D

[Joris]

Or maybe they could WRITE A BOOK about these old trucks. You know, written by the manufacturer when they were made? With pictures and troubleshooting charts.

 

Man, that would be SWEET!

 

:laugh:

 

:box:

[N.O.S.]

:n00b::rotfl: The phrase "flogging a dead horse" springs to mind. :-D

 

But in all seriousness Deadline, you are so right

 

I have a great compilation manual for the jeep which comprises extracts from Army Motors as well as the original manuals, also great tips from restorers. If I had bothered to read it I would have saved myself a whole year of hassle trying to start my Jeep with a retrofitted Solex carburettor - when I finally checked the manual out ( for something else) I found advice on how to use the choke on these French carbs.......:blush:

 

Now who do we know who might be able to put together something similar for the GMC? :cool2: :whistle:

[Tony B]

:n00b::rotfl: The phrase "flogging a dead horse" springs to mind. :-D

Yeah yoppe! But not everything is in the manuals. A lot of knowledge is assumed. It was a time mechanic did more than change a black box for another one.

:pfrt:

[deadline]

Sorry for going a little OT but I must disagree.

 

The early TM10's are fantastic sources of information and guidance. The later TM9s are not that great...unless you get the complete works (and for the CCKW thats about 5-6 different books). And those separate books are so specific that you cannot get the big picture because each book is only geared to that ONE relevant area.

 

Using the TM10's you need 2 books, the maintenance and parts books.

 

For example TM10-1563 20 March 1943 uses 18 pages to describe the entire fuel system to include carb rebuild, governor rebuild, fuel pump rebuild, operation, removal, installation and maintenance.

 

Under the echelon system (or the TM-9 books) you need

TM-801 (installation, removal, maint)

TM9-1828A (fuel pump rebuild)

SNL-G-508 (order parts)

TM9-1826C (carb rebuild)

I'm not sure where the governor rebuild went maybe (TM9-1802A?)

 

That's why its so hard to 'figure out' whats going on mechanically using later books. Unless you have the complete CCKW encyclopedia you have to fall back on mechanical knowledge... and most people today don't have any idea how to deal with a carb, governor, or the difference between a parts diagram and an assembly diagram.

 

Many of those TMs are avialable for free from http://www.tm9-801.com/techpubs/index.php