robin craig Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 I went in to work yesterday to sort out a piece of agricultural kit for my principle as he wanted to use it. I noticed that the Stormer was out of it's bay, he had wanted to take some of the guests for a ride so presumed he was doing that. About 25 minutes later as I was finishing up my work, he turned up but not in the Stormer which didn't bode well. Long story short we visited the stricken vehicle. Hats off to him that he heard something was wrong and stopped it where it was. The pictures show the basic problem, I believe I know what the fault is, and that is that the bearings in the idler / tensioner wheel are shot. The recovery will be interesting. I will have this to deal with on Monday morning. R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Was the track tension correct in the first place, Robin? I'm wondering what's cause and what's effect? Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted August 21, 2011 Author Share Posted August 21, 2011 Andy, Thanks for the question, my principle took the vehicle out so I'm sure he did a first parade and checked the tension. R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m109a3uk Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 I'm sure it will give you something to do:laugh: If you need a hand I'll pop over with my AA tool kit:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted August 21, 2011 Author Share Posted August 21, 2011 Tony, you are booked on the next flight out of Gatport Airwick. I could use some dead weight or blocking . . . . Thanks for the encouragement, now to develop the recovery plan. I know I will have to split the track at some point, I just don't want to do it where it is. My thoughts are to put some tension on the track towards the middle of the vehicle and slowly release track tension and see if I can get the guide horns to drop back into the idler. Then using "team blue" ie New Holland tractor, pull it very slowly backwards to the shop. That approach will likely see the track stay in place and not throw, i'm hoping. Once in the shop it will be track clamp out and split the track and remove the idler for inspection. Im going to split the other side as well to inspect that at the same time. In for a penny in for a pound is my thought. Recovery slated for Monday morning, idler may come off that day or on tuesday night which is our scheduled maintenance night. Anyone else have any thoughts? R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 How about moving the vehicle very slowly forwards or backwards under its own power whilst gently belting the edge of the track with a sledgehammer and block of wood? That should get the horns to drop back in place? Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted August 21, 2011 Author Share Posted August 21, 2011 Andy, Yes whacking it with a sledge and block of wood is another way of achieving the same result as what I plan to do in what I feel is a bit more of a controlled manner. Don't forget we are "employees" and I have to be wary of "work place injuries" to myself and my fellow employees while achieving this result. While we do not suffer quite the same from H + S wombles, safety is a consideration. Robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m109a3uk Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Andy, Yes whacking it with a sledge and block of wood is another way of achieving the same result as what I plan to do in what I feel is a bit more of a controlled manner. Don't forget we are "employees" and I have to be wary of "work place injuries" to myself and my fellow employees while achieving this result. While we do not suffer quite the same from H + S wombles, safety is a consideration. Robin Easy sub it out to a couple of Poles and let them do it:laugh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m109a3uk Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Try an easy pull or ratchet on to the rear lashing/recovery eyes and drive very slow with some good eyes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 After some email exchanges with a few of you and some other sage souls I have resolved as follows:- - relieve track tension and slap track so that horns drop into idler - split track - A bar vehicle back to shop. Reasons:- - no wish to split and short track in the field, just a pile of grunt work I don't need. - road wheels can support vehicle 2 kilometres back to shop over good ground - no wish to cause any more damage to rear idler spindle as we may get away with new bearings and seals - heavy kit available to effect recovery The only question that remains - should we pull the drive shaft out of the left drive sprocket given we will be going 5 kmh or less to the shop - fear is gearbox damage if not removed Robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidewinder Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Robin, Exactly the same happened to me on my 432 and as is always the case in deep mud too, so I understand exactly how you are feeling.. On mine it turned out not to be the bearings but the actual idler arm itself that had been twisted at some point. I gave up trying to get my guide horns to drop back into place in the end. Even with all the tension taken out of the track it wouldn't budge, and rocking the vehicle gently backwards and forwards just made it come off even more. Hopefully you'll have more luck as your idler wheel isn't rubber tyred which I think was the main problem I had, the guide horns were biting hard into the rubber and as a result were not going to be persuaded to move sideways. In the end it dropped off completely and I ended up having to splitting (in two places) the track in deep mud, not something I'd want to do again in a hurry. Hope it all goes well! Good luck. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizzie Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 If towing stormer disconnect both drive shafts, safe than sorry. If gambling man, drive stormer forward and pull a sharp turn on opposite track outward force will pull track back onto ideler, done it before,:cool2: Phone a friend!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RattlesnakeBob Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 whenever I've had a similar thing happen on a tracked machine/excavator/dozer etc its usually a case of slackening off the track tension adjuster....a few short lengths of scaffold pole and some brute force and sweat....mind you its easier with a 360 machines as you can lift them up using their own boom ...and then rotate the duff track with it up off the floor whilst grunting and snorting with your short bits of scaffold .. ..also handy to have another excavator to hand too.....use the bucket to push the offending track back towards where it should be... it's gotta be said I do like the sound of a speedy opposite turn but if that goes wrong?... ..oh boy will you have some work!..... as to the cause .?..anyones guess... but... ..I have had tracks come off machines cos of the type of ground they were operating in.....particularly very gritty or sandy soil which will fill the 'groove' up in the track and which will 'pack in' surprisingly hard......... thereby dislodging the guides on the track......... .....put it down to good experience and all part of the fun of operating tracked vehicles! heheheheh!..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 Just got indoors tonight. way too much fun for the two of us involved. Remember, I was not the driver at the time nor was I anywhere near it, i'm just the civvy "REME LAD" for the collection I manage. At times I feel that those that screw up should put the sweat equity in at the fixing end so that they might learn a lesson or two Vehicle is back in the shop, doors closed, minus one track which languishes outside. Full survey of damage too follow tuesday. Full blow by blow account and pictures to support said wordage after I have had my tea which my lady has just gone out shopping for, macaroni and cheese tonight, mmmm. At this time I would like to say a big thank you to Sirhc aka Chris and Reccymech and Marcus Glenn and all the others who have chimed in. Just let it be said that it was more complex than anyone had envisaged and the biggest problem we faced has not been mentioned by anyone. I'm headed to the shower and then my carpet slippers and some comfy clean clothes! Robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Never mind the track bashing, send us over some Macaroni Cheese! :-) Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 So, here is what we were dealing with, or what we thought, a track that was about to throw itself off on the right side. A few pieces of hardwood and a sledge is what we thought is all it would take to slide the track across the metal idler and drop the guide horns back into place and voila. A few generous encouraging taps with a sledge proved that while the track would move sideways it would only go so far. So we pulled the track shroud off and found this. R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 Not so bad you might say, but closer examination showed this, the link was jammed solid between the sponson and the idler wheel with the rubber in the pad being considerably compressed. R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 I have to tell you that the track was as near as welded in that position. We then elected to split the idler wheel and then few love taps an the track dropped back into its proper position. We then broke track or split the track which ever is your parlance. The usual gearbox shaft trickery was performed and the vehicle was A bar towed back to our shop for evaluation of the idler and it's true running, that will happen in the next few days. Here is the underside of the sponson showing the point of contact between the rubber and the hull R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m109a3uk Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 All good fun by the look of it. Driving hard or mech fault??? The betting starts now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 All good fun by the look of it. Driving hard or mech fault??? The betting starts now. I blame the aliens... :red: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 What's the Army's equivalent of the Navy's "Came off in me hand, Chief"? :-) Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 If you revisit the first post in the thread you will know that I was not the nut behind the bolt. I would suggest that hard turns in pure loose sand are a bad thing and the mess I had to deal with would be the proof. I am being told by the powers that be " well how does the army run theirs in the desert" to which my reply was " with a darn sight more care", that retort had all the aerodynamics of a lead filled balloon as might be expected. I guess time will tell if the lesson is learned, likely we will be visiting the scene of the crime again in the future with another tracked vehicle, at least that is the bet I have in my shop with my lads. There seems to be a direct relationship between lessons learned and skinned knuckles. Others dont get their knuckles skinned so maybe that is the problem? "A nod is as good as a wink to a blind man" R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recymech66 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 If you revisit the first post in the thread you will know that I was not the nut behind the bolt. I would suggest that hard turns in pure loose sand are a bad thing and the mess I had to deal with would be the proof. I am being told by the powers that be " well how does the army run theirs in the desert" to which my reply was " with a darn sight more care", that retort had all the aerodynamics of a lead filled balloon as might be expected. I guess time will tell if the lesson is learned, likely we will be visiting the scene of the crime again in the future with another tracked vehicle, at least that is the bet I have in my shop with my lads. There seems to be a direct relationship between lessons learned and skinned knuckles. Others dont get their knuckles skinned so maybe that is the problem? "A nod is as good as a wink to a blind man" R Not trying to teach people to suck eggs but driving in the desert is really easy, I also teach track vehicle driving and if you apply the following method then tracks should never be thrown, (I know it happens.... a lot more than you would think) Always ensure your track tension is at the correct setting When steering (particularly low speed manouvering) use what we call the "50 pence method" ie, imagine you are steering around an imaginary 50 pence piece, so you are applying the steering on off on off, what this does is allow's the dirt/earth/sand to clear from the track horns/sprockets etc thus ensuring the track doesn't climb off the sprocket or idler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Not trying to teach people to suck eggs but driving in the desert is really easy, I also teach track vehicle driving and if you apply the following method then tracks should never be thrown, (I know it happens.... a lot more than you would think) Always ensure your track tension is at the correct setting When steering (particularly low speed manouvering) use what we call the "50 pence method" ie, imagine you are steering around an imaginary 50 pence piece, so you are applying the steering on off on off, what this does is allow's the dirt/earth/sand to clear from the track horns/sprockets etc thus ensuring the track doesn't climb off the sprocket or idler. Perfect as ever recymech66. I am a newbie but this is one of the very first things I was told by those older and wiser - good technique to be applied in any soft ground... Robin - at least now you have your answer as to 'how the army does it'...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted October 20, 2011 Author Share Posted October 20, 2011 Here is the twisted idler arm. R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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